UP055: Hurry Home // enabling renters to become owners of affordable homes

Jada McLean 0:00
This is niche but not really a niche because it’s about 20% of the US housing stock. But there are a lot of houses across the nation that are moving ready houses that are valued at $80,000 or less. So, real value done with rehab, it’s ready for sale.

Jay Clouse 0:19
Start Up startup investment landscape is changing. and world class companies are being built outside of Silicon Valley. We find them, talk with them and discuss the upside of investing in them. Welcome to upside.

Eric Hornung 0:46
Hello, hello. Hello, and welcome to the upside podcast. The first podcast finding upside outside of Silicon Valley. I’m Eric horn on and I’m accompanied by my co host, Mr. camping in the rain himself. Jay Clouse, Jay How’s it going, man? Well, I’m dry once again. And for that I am grateful. You were without a home in the wilderness. What happened?

Jay Clouse 1:09
Well, front of the podcast, Mallory bought us concert tickets to go see my favorite band at one of their most unique shows that they’ve ever done. A concert in Cumberland caverns, which is in Tennessee, a cave 300 feet below the surface. amazing show amazing acoustics. My favorite band, like I said, and she used this Eric to trick me into camping, which is something that I have very defensively tried to not do just about all of my life.

Eric Hornung 1:37
You’re more of a roof over your head kind of guy.

Jay Clouse 1:39
I can do cabins. So however just the issue that I have with camping is just we’ve worked too hard to build homes to go back to living in not homes.

Eric Hornung 1:52
Yeah, but you might have a bone to pick with camping but I have a bone to pick with you. Okay, so you were down in Tennessee. You live in Columbus and on your way home. You decided to stop. Not in you know, Kentucky, not in Lexington. Not in between Cincinnati and Columbus. You stopped in my city and went to skyline and didn’t tell me.

Jay Clouse 2:17
I think that’s where you’re wrong. Eric, I think we were technically stopped in Kentucky. You’re in the Greater Cincinnati area. You were a 12 minute drive from my house. Well, listen, it was not premeditated skyline. We were driving back we still had two hours. It was the longest drive back ever. By the way. I have no idea how this happened. But it just seemed like no matter what we did, our path home got slower and slower. There were accidents. There were cars in the shoulder. There were new routes. It just seemed like for 30 minutes. Our GPS said three more hours. Anyway, long drive back. I had to use the restroom. Mallory said man I’ve been craving skyline for a long time. I saw my opportunity I said let’s get skyline and so we stopped we saw literally a sign on the right of the road they said skyline coming up actually said gold star and we said let’s try gold star but as we got off the exit we saw skyline and said why would we try gold star seems like skyline is the play. We stopped. We got the skyline. We use the restroom, we got back on the road and we heard home.

Eric Hornung 3:14
I want to lambaste you a little bit. But that was such a good transition that I’m gonna let you go with it.

Jay Clouse 3:19
Today, our guest is Jada McLean, the co founder and CEO of Hurry Home. Hurry Home finances houses through shared ownership, enabling renters to become homeowners and offering a streamlined investment opportunity. despite there being 3 million houses for sale and the bottom tier real estate market at any given time, banks are unable to profitably originate mortgages for these properties. Hurry Home uses capital from investors to offer a new financial product that enables homebuyers to earn equity in their home while paying close to or less than what rent would be for the same property. It just seems like you said it wasn’t premeditated skyline but it definitely was premeditated that you were going to go through Cincinnati, you could have just you know, given me a heads up. It’s true. But I was hot, I was sweaty, I was still covered in from the day before his sunscreen. I don’t like being wet. I don’t like being dirty, and the faster I could get home and I could get to a shower. That was what I was optimizing for you are so full of excuses. It’s ridiculous. Hurry Home was founded in 2018. It’s based in South Bend, Indiana, and also the founder split time in Chicago, Illinois. They’ve gone through TechStars. Eric, this is going to be a pretty early episode for a company pretty early on and Hurry Homes existence. But we really liked the model. We hadn’t spent any time in South Bend, Indiana yet. And I think it’s gonna be a fun episode.

Eric Hornung 4:38
This feels like one of those companies that’s not really going to have that bread and butter six to 18 months before a series A that we look for. It feels like one of those companies that if this model works in the pilot stage, it’s just going to absolutely blow up with a huge raise.

Jay Clouse 4:55
Real Estate seems like real estate tech, when it’s not just software, we’re enabling things with real estate when their actual homes involved. Seems like it becomes pretty capital intensive. If you look at open door, for example, big big raises don’t have Hurry Home is playing in that space or not. But you’ve listened to every episode of the bigger pockets podcast, so I’m going to lean on you to suss that out.

Eric Hornung 5:15
All right, let’s do it.

Jay Clouse 5:17
If you guys have any thoughts on this episode, as we go through, you can tweet at us at upside FM or email us hello@upset.fm. And we’ll get into the interview right after this. Hey, guys wanted to give you a quick note and ask for a quick favor. Eric and I have once again entered the South by Southwest panel picker competition to have a panel or maybe two panels at this year South by Southwest festival. Last year, you guys came out in droves and voted for a panel and gave us the opportunity to go and speak with people at South by Southwest about geography versus investing does location matter. And this year, we have two panels up for vote that we appreciate your help in supporting. Eric, you want to talk a little bit about your event.

Eric Hornung 6:00
Yeah, so mine is quite the tongue twister, Jay. So if I get through this in one take, it’s going to be impressive. It’s called capitalists capitalist running a cashless fund. I nailed it. It’s about what Jay and I are doing here on the podcast, which is essentially running a venture capital fund without making investments of money, but instead making investments of time and giving people media attention. I think this idea can apply to a lot of other spaces. And we’re going to tell our story. And also talk about other ways that you can think like an investor act like an investor without making specific investments.

Jay Clouse 6:36
What do you got on the docket Jay, my panel is called connecting tech communities outside Silicon Valley. It’s not nearly as fun to say as yours. But this is a panel exploring the ideas of how to connect community builders and different ecosystems across the country to one another is sort of this platform role for community that we’ve talked about more than once here on the podcast. So if you guys wouldn’t mind tossing us a vote, you just have to go to upside down FM slash vote. I’ll say that again. Go to upside.fm slash vote, please give us a vote on both submissions. And hopefully one of them comes through and we’ll see you again this year at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas.

Jay Clouse 7:18
Jada, welcome to the show!

Jada McLean 7:20
Hi, thanks for having me.

Eric Hornung 7:22
On upside, we like to start with a background of the founder. Can you tell us about the history of Jada?

Jada McLean 7:27
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So I’m actually a Los Angeles native, born and raised.

Jay Clouse 7:34
I didn’t know those existed.

Jada McLean 7:37
Yeah, I’m actually Another fun fact is I’m the first person in my family born in the States. So my family’s from Jamaica. And let’s see, I I quit at one for university, I hopped on over to Duke, so totally opposite side of the country. My mom really hated me for that, but very happy because she can now talk about her daughter being at Duke, and then moved to New York did a stint in investment banking, which my mom still has no clue what that means. So my mom’s a nurse, my step, dad’s a gourmet chef, like they literally have no clue what I do, or what I did. And that’s kind of where I learned about entrepreneurship.

Jay Clouse 8:16
Whereas how you learn about entrepreneurship.

Jada McLean 8:18
And so in banking, I worked for a big kind of bulge bracket for a little while, and then I worked for a smaller shop. And the smaller shop, it was like they call it middle market. So a lot of the I was a point of contact for all the executive level companies we advise, and I just kept seeing them, you know, come in and out the door like us, like, you know what, you guys are smart, but you’re not that smart. Like I could totally do this. And I just demystify the whole entrepreneurship or the journey of the entrepreneur. And don’t have the courage to say, you know what, I could do this myself and kind of spent the next six months just frantically writing down any and every problem I came across to see if there is kind of any opportunity within my own problems that that I saw.

Eric Hornung 9:02
How long was that list of problems?

Jada McLean 9:04
It’s I mean, it’s notebooks actually. It’s notebooks. on my end, it’s also notes on your phone and kind of whatever like, makes you wake up in the middle of it, like, Oh, this is kind of cool. Or it’s just you’re walking down the street. And it’s like, oh, let me just drop this down. And then you pick a few and you flush him out or or you are there kind of things you do with friends sometimes, yeah.

Eric Hornung 9:30
Did you ever do any kind of like side hustle or anything like as you’re going through some of those ideas like something that didn’t seem super scalable, but you’re like, I could try this out? This seems interesting,

Jada McLean 9:39
A bit, it was kind of hard to having kind of the banking hours to really pursue side hustle. And then on top of pursuing, like a startup that I wanted to really go after, because I think it was like, sleep, real job, which is a lot for bankers. And then it was like, now let’s do some customer discovery of this other startup that I was thinking. Thinking about it was more when I think about starting a company was more like how can I make this biggest company ever? And and how can I create the most impact, which would make it also really big?

Jay Clouse 10:11
I was going to ask what types of filters you’re applying to these notebooks of ideas that you know, didn’t, you didn’t really take the leap and go deep into one until you know that the company we’re talking about today. But what what were the sort of filters you’re looking at as if this idea could accomplish this, then I’m interested in pursuing it.

Jada McLean 10:31
Yes. I mean, some of the ideas were absolutely idiotic. I mean, it was just it was like, let me just write it down, I think. And then other ideas are probably more geared towards the financial space, because obviously, that’s what I was in. And my problem is that I knew my family was facing. So I think I just probably put on a natural investment banking filter. It’s like, how big is this problem? Is this a problem that like real people face, I didn’t really want to solve problems of millennials or, or problems that just increased convenience. I wanted to solve problems that were real. And so I think that those are the filters because the realness of the problem really, really inspired passion within me. And you definitely need passion to do these things. Because otherwise, I don’t really know how you do it.

Jay Clouse 11:16
While you’re sitting in South Bend right now, as of your story, you’re in New York. So at what point did you decide to go to South Bend, Indiana, of all places?

Jada McLean 11:24
Yeah, I know, it was a very abrupt decision. So I was, yes, very, very abrupt. So I was in banking, I actually started another company and black hair care, my own problem, huge, huge industry, and still a very huge problem. But it was while I was doing that, and kind of struggling with my team doing that. Someone in my Duke network reached out to me, and they’re like, Hey, Jay, to there’s opportunity to do some research on financial inclusion, which is right up my alley, tickles my investment banker brain. And he’s like, the cash is out. It’s in South Bend, Indiana. It’s like, All right, cool. spoke to the people in South Bend that were running the think tank. And after the first conversation, I just felt that I had to go there to do this. And so three weeks later, I packed up from New York and moved to South Bend, Indiana. What kind of financial inclusion specifically were you think thinking about? Yeah, it’s mostly so all the it’s what financial inclusion really means is how do we create products and services that can not only serve the affluent or the, I guess, higher income individuals of the United States, but also people in the lower income brackets as well. So I think some good examples would be if you’re not familiar with, like, chime, like, how do we make banking much easier? And like, how do we support the underbanked people? So people that maybe use payday loans, because they can’t get credit cards? And all those types of products and services? Why are people underbanked? Well, yeah, I mean, I consider a lot of that’s, that’s probably not about conversation for this, because it gets really deep. But a few of the reasons is, is sometimes a lack of education, and that in their communities, it’s like, oh, we didn’t know that. If you get a bank account, there’s all these other things that you could do. And that allows you to build up towards, or there’s like fees, there used to be a lot of fees with what traditional bank accounts, it’s like monthly servicing fees, or overdraft fees, which a lot of people actually banks like make a lot of money on. And when people are operating in cash, sometimes they don’t realize or operating kind of like at the break, you know, paycheck to paycheck, sometimes those fees get to them, and they’d rather just not deal with that and, and use cash. And then there’s also some trust factors as well with with these financial institutions, which I’m sure probably you guys can can relate to, to some extent,

Jay Clouse 13:48
What happened in this Think Tank conversation that was so compelling in one conversation, then you decided to uproot your life and move to Indiana?

Jada McLean 13:54
I’m a as well as one of my investors says that I am a very much so gut feeling corner. So I think we had a conversation I really enjoyed the conversation with with the founder of the think tank. And I and I just I think the finance, the fact that was focused on financial inclusion was was another part, it felt like they had built up a network enough for me to cycle through and learn from. So I think, I think, when starting a company, what you really need to do is is steep yourself in and around the problem. So how do you talk to as many people that have tentacles on this problem, and they had built up a network of people that I could immediately out the gate interview, which for me that that allows me to accelerate pretty quickly. And if I wanted to test our testing services, I could go and get those people’s feedback very quickly, and and iterate. So it’s kind of that whole Lean Startup type mentality.

Eric Hornung 14:50
So I just want to clarify my understanding this this Think Tank, was the goal of it to launch a business coming out of the think tank, or was this just a washington dc? We’re going to publish reports think tank?

Jada McLean 15:01
No, no, no, no, it was more more of a former. So it was it was let’s bring together a bunch of people that have an interest in financial inclusion, and also have an interest in starting a company. And we can give them a bunch of people they can talk to. And then we can also give them like some of the inklings of the problems that we’ve researched in this financial inclusion space, and then just let them run. And that’s that’s what they did.

Jay Clouse 15:24
What was the organization that put that together? Just out of curiosity?

Jada McLean 15:27
Yeah, it’s called in Vanti.

Jay Clouse 15:29
and what’s their goal as an organization,

Jada McLean 15:31
It’s that, it’s to find people that want to be entrepreneurs, that may not have ideas, and kind of helped them along that journey.

Jay Clouse 15:38
What year was this?

Jada McLean 15:40
2017? Yeah, end of 2017.

Jay Clouse 15:44
Okay, so help us close the gap, then you you have this conversation, you go there, at some point, you start a company. So help us close the gap as to what that progression look like.

Jada McLean 15:55
Yeah, so I got there. And about six months later, after kind of spending most of that time, six months just researching and talking to people, we then spun up Perry Hall, and then kind of got some good traction, the city government gave us some cash to make sure that we could get it up and running. And then we got into TechStars, Chicago. And then we packed up moved to TechStars. And shortly thereafter, got our first customers. And now we’re operating and both are operating in South Bend, but also in Chicago as well. offices in Chicago as well.

Eric Hornung 16:28
I want to talk about your so you’re researching for six months, and then all of a sudden Hurry Home, like what was the decision? Where were the other potential opportunities in financial inclusion? Other than where you actually ended up?

Jada McLean 16:39
Yeah. So there was I spent some time researching short term or small dollar lending as well. So coming from Jamaican family, we do this, it’s, well, let’s step back, it’s really hard to get small dollar credit, which is why payday lenders exist, especially when you don’t have a credit score or you have bad credit score. But I think there’s out there subsector of people that just don’t have a credit score at all, because they don’t want to operate in credit. So I was looking at that sector of people. And I know in my own family, my culture, we do like family lending and saving together. So we all pull money together. And then one month, have one person in the family and that circle gets it and then the next month, another person gets it. So it’s kind of this lending and saving circle. So there’s other coaches that do it as well. So I was looking kind of at at that as well as like, how can I use How can I scale that? How can I make this a system where I not only can depend on my own circle, but how can I extend that circles other people and what kind of metrics that I need to have someone potentially vouch for someone to be able to lend money. So it’s only those it was housing and this one, and I think at the point where we started getting some that we the city government said they would give us dollars to to run a pilot with Hurry Home, it was kind of a no brainer. Like we should this is the opportunity today, this is the time Let’s run hard at it and and see where it goes.

Jay Clouse 18:04
So spell out for us what Hurry Home is and how it operates now.

Jada McLean 18:09
so Hurry Home is a new path to homeownership. And we focus on small dollar mortgages, so small dollar houses, the less than $80,000 market across the United States. And what we do is we align the incentives of property owners communities, as well as aspiring homeowners through shared ownership. And and how we do that as we it’s a marketplace that connects these property owners that own these houses, to families that want to own these houses. And we allow these families to accrue ownership with each payment that they’re staying in there, that they’re staying and paying the landlord because they are able to save landlords a lot on the cost of turnover and vacancy and maintenance and, and management. So eventually the family accrues 100% ownership in the house at the end of 10 years is that $80,000 after repair value, or these houses that are currently completely livable, and people are living in them, and they don’t really need much updating. Yeah, it’s kind of weird. I guess, for a lot of people that aren’t familiar that this is nice, but not really a nice, because it’s about 20% of the US housing stock. But there are a lot of houses across the nation that are moving ready houses that are valued at $80,000 or less. So real value done with rehab, it’s ready for sale, they are valued in this range. And the reason why this problem exists is because for banks, the processing costs for any mortgage is the same. But the profit only increases as the value the mortgage increases. So naturally, a bank is going to want to focus on those higher dollar mortgages, and means more money. But the problem results is that now there’s few to no homebuyers without any mortgages. So those people keep renting. And then the people that actually own these houses are usually property investors. And they’re stuck with these properties. Because the only other buyers of these properties are other property investors that are looking for really high yield. So they’re likely to buy it. High discounts upwards of 30%. So 70% of the dollar. So they sent some of these properties after the investment period.

Eric Hornung 20:17
Are these homes generally clustered?

Jada McLean 20:20
I wouldn’t say their cluster, maybe. So a lot of neighborhoods like it’s like in South Bend, the median house value is like 65,000. So I guess if you think that’s a cluster, it’s kind of I guess, city based town based, we find these, there’s a lot of these cities and towns kind of around the nation that have low median house values.

Jay Clouse 20:40
If I own one of these homes in South Bend that’s worth $80,000. And I’m a property investor, did I buy it because I expect to just cash flow it on rent, or am I trying to flip it and realizing I made the wrong investment.

Jada McLean 20:56
It’s definitely the former, so you’re buying it with cash likely, and you probably honestly bought it maybe at maybe as a foreclosure as a tax lien or whatever it was, and you put money into it, to get it to be that 50,000 $80,000 range. Or maybe you inherited it, and you rented out to get cash flow, and it becomes kind of a steady stream of cash flow for you. The problem only becomes when you know 10 years down the line when you’re like Oh, actually I’m done being a landlord, I don’t want to do this anymore. Can I get rid of this, and there’s no one to buy it from you.

Jay Clouse 21:30
So it’s not, if I’m the home owner, and I’m excited about Hurry Home, I’m excited about it, because I can get out from under the responsibility of owning this property without just losing my shirt on the investment in the first place.

Jada McLean 21:43
Exactly. So for the landlord or property owner, this is an awesome opportunity because they get a trusted qualified tenant, that’s going to take care of the property, they have completely reduced stress from the management because this family’s now and they’re saying I’m going to so I’m going to really take care of it. And then obviously with the facility with the Hurry Home helping on that front, and then you also have a likely exit because his family wants to buy it. And we help them kind of manage their savings or the savings that they accrue for you plus additional savings to purchase that house at any given time.

Jay Clouse 22:19
If the horizon is 10 years that the renter then becomes the owner. Is it just 10 years across the board you just what the payment is to get it done in 10 years, or how does that model? How does that model determined?

Jada McLean 22:29
Yep, so we adjust what the payment is to get it to the 10 years. So it ends up being just a slightly above market rate rent, but a portion of that is like a forced savings for the tenant that goes towards the purchase price of the house. That can also be liquidated if they feel they decide they no longer want to purchase it.

Eric Hornung 22:47
How is this different than like rent?

Jada McLean 22:50
I think the two I guess key differentiator one key differentiators that it’s a lot more flexible for the buyer. I think in typical renter only you pay into it. And then when you want to leave or something small happens you leave with nothing with us. That’s not the case. You pay into this we escrow portion that savings. So then what would what would they do? Or some of the equity that you’ve accrued of lesser cost to replace you.

Eric Hornung 23:17
One question on a follow up for the homeowner? What are vacancy rates, like in this segment of the market? In terms of price?

Jada McLean 23:27
Yeah, so I mean, it’s more, there’s like, there is higher turnover. So that’s I guess that’s that’s a lot of our pitches that because there’s such high turnover in this market, we save you, you know, maybe a month of rents to save you the cost of actually redoing the house. So doing the paint and carpet, replacing faucets, whatever it is. And that’s that’s so that’s a large of a lot of repairs, we end up realizing that that can cost them can cost the landlord $3,000 in one year, which is a significant amount of savings over a 10 year period.

Jay Clouse 23:59
So if I’m am, if I’m a homeowner, and I’m going through this and someone comes in and they let’s say they get three years in, they want to get out. And there’s like something something adverse happens, you know, you have this escrow, what does that actually look like, in practical terms as to like, what’s the go forward from there for the homeowner and for the person who was renting?

Jada McLean 24:19
Right. So as in the renter wants to leave? Or there’s something wrong with the house?

Jay Clouse 24:24
Either way. I don’t know. I could see like a ton of circumstances where this 10 year thing just doesn’t happen.

Jada McLean 24:29
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So yeah, I mean, if the renter wants to leave, then at three years, the renter has accrued, it really depends on liquidation at that point. But Dave, and how much it costs to replace the actual tenant, but they will be liquid data for a minimum of their downpayment, which is 5% of the houses value. And then on top of that kind of a portion of whatever they’ve saved the landlord over the duration of their three years. So kind of the number I said earlier, we save landlords, approximately $3,000 a year, look at probably 50% of that, able to be liquidated.

Eric Hornung 25:04
How easy is this? To explain to renters?

Jada McLean 25:07
We basically say it’s rent to own but better. So easy. Yeah.

Jay Clouse 25:13
Yeah. So to go back to my question. So if you’re liquidating some of this, I’m trying to figure out, is there like an LLC that’s formed? Where you know, if something broke up, now there’s a new home owner that has a conjunction of the previous owner plus this renter? Or they basically like return that? some amount of cash that they invested into it?

Jada McLean 25:34
Yeah, we escrow the cash. So it’s Hurry Home, just returned it.

Jay Clouse 25:39
I see. Okay. And so with a 10, year time horizon, you guys started in 2018? Like, what types of experiments Do you have to see play out to know that this is going to work? And on what timeframe?

Jada McLean 25:49
Well, the biggest one is, are our renters paying their rent? I’d say that is the biggest one, or biggest, I guess, metric that you watch. And I can say that all of our renters have been paying their rent. And we think that, you know, that’s partly because we do, we take a more holistic view of their budget, we make sure that this payment isn’t no more than 30% of their monthly gross monthly income. And we pull their bank transaction data to to really understand the ins and outs are the cash flows. So that’s the biggest thing I’d say. The next one is, is probably, I guess, the the chart. So how many people are saying I want to stay for a year after year in these in this agreement? And then the next one has, how are they maintaining the house? So are they actually doing maintaining routine maintenance. But that’s kind of why we can or how we why we tie the equity to the time that someone’s in the house as well.

Eric Hornung 26:45
Do you have any numbers on churn or maintenance that you could share?

Jada McLean 26:49
Well, we I mean, that was we have a small collection, we still we’re still in our kind of pilot, I guess we started the end of last year, we have our first five families placed now of them have defaulted. So we’ve collected about 30 payments, so no churn yet. I’m hoping there’s no church within the first three years maintenance has been. So we do do home inspections, to help us understand what kind of maintenance we can foresee and start budgeting for. And there hasn’t been any serious maintenance, I think there was a window that broke, which is like a $250 fix, which we have a portion of piece of their payment that actually they really do have for savings for maintenance to make sure that there’s money to take care of that.

Eric Hornung 27:33
When you think about right now you have five families place, but in the future, you could have 5000 50,000, whatever, a lot of families place, right. Do you think about that as kind of like a portfolio like the jobs for example, if half of the people are in the coal mining industry, and that goes by the wayside? how sensitive is your business and underlying ability for renters to pay to like macroeconomic conditions?

Jada McLean 28:00
So I guess how we look at it, we look, we look at cities that have diverse industries, and that definitely have demonstrated job growth. And then we do look at it from an individual perspective is how long have you maintained your current job? Has it been two years, that’s really the minimum, and kind of what has been the income that you’ve been able to secure with that with that job. And then the thing about the rents here is that they’re not really going to be able to find anything much cheaper than these houses. Because I mean, if you like these houses, a $50,000 house is probably going for 800 bucks a month. And so our payments are around 850. So they’re not really going to be able to find anything much cheaper. This is probably their like best, their best case scenario. But yeah, worst case scenario, we’d have to find more renters, which I believe that there will be a multitude of these renters. In the event, there is a downturn looking to rent.

Jay Clouse 28:58
You said the pilot’s with city?

Jada McLean 29:00
Not necessary what the city they’ve given us some cash to help us run the pilot. So they support us.

Jay Clouse 29:06
Why is that? Why would Why are the city say we care about this so much that we’re going to put cash into it?

Jada McLean 29:10
It’s a serious problem. So I mean, the benefits for the city is that we put homeowners more homeowners into the city, that increases the homeownership ratio that increases taxes being paid, that increases kind of the overall integrity of neighborhoods, right homeowners, we all know homeowners care way more about their homes, their mentors do.

Eric Hornung 29:29
Who are your guys’ competitors?

Jada McLean 29:31
I’d say our most direct competitors would be one the status quo. So there’s like one off rentals that happened have been happening since the 60s, I wouldn’t say those are commercialized, they sometimes get a really bad rap. Because they don’t really follow any regulation, they’re often pretty predatory. And then the kind of most recent more recent competitors would be like a home partners of America, where they let you lease the house, you want to own for yours, and you have to go get a mortgage to purchase them out. And then similar to them as a dv homes that popped up in 2018. And they let you rent the house he wants to buy for three years where you accumulated down payment, and then you have to go secure a traditional mortgage. So none of these work in this bottom tier market is $80,000 and under market.

Eric Hornung 30:21
How do you guys make money in this market? How does Hurry Home make money?

Jada McLean 30:25
Yeah, so we we figured out how much savings we accrue for this landlord. And we take a piece of that. And that ends up being the subscription fee. So we make $70 per house per month. And then we also charge an onboarding fee of 754 per house.

Eric Hornung 30:41
How’d you get to those prices?

Jada McLean 30:43
Well, a lot like the savings. So I look at how much we save landlords over this duration when I look at kind of what like what our expenses would be for onboarding these houses. And that’s basically all we did was like, let’s just take a piece of these the savings. That’s probably the most logical way for us at least, to come up with a pricing model.

Jay Clouse 31:06
Is it either legal or prudent to take all the money you could have hypothetically in escrow across tons and tons of houses and try to make money on that?

Jada McLean 31:17
Oh, so like investing it and making interest on it? That’s definitely something we would probably look into. Because I know that we like doing money markets, I guess. Yeah, I think that’s not what we’re doing now. But there is that’s a different I guess that’s another question for another day when when we have that problem.

Jay Clouse 31:34
So I feel like I understand the type of city and the type of home that goes into this. Can you describe what you think your renters will be? Like? Like, what stages of life? Are they in? what’s important to them?

Jada McLean 31:45
Yeah. So usually I talk about one of our people are fake people, but she’s a real person. So Barbara, she is a nursing assistant, she makes $40,000 a year about she’s a native South Bender, she’s about 35. So mid 30s has a kid has been renting her whole life. why she’s doing is this is because she wants a place for her family. She wants a very stable home. It’s not that she’s looking for an investment. As much as she’s looking for a home to raise her kids.

Jay Clouse 32:18
This ismuch more am accessibility play for people who can’t access right now, to build up, like you said, kind of like integrity of neighborhoods. This isn’t something that me as maybe a more money minded individual or like an investment minded individual who is still renting, this isn’t something that I’m going to try to necessarily take advantage of.

Jada McLean 32:36
Now it’s definitely for first time homeowner that’s looking to live in this house. And yeah, just really living invest in this house because they want to remain there.

Jay Clouse 32:45
How big is this opportunity? Like? How many? How many communities? Do you see that Hurry Home could enter and do this in? And what does that mean for your business?

Jada McLean 32:52
Yeah, so I maybe say a little bit earlier. But this $70,000 or $80,000, in under range, actually accounts for 24 to the US housing stock. So that means like five and a half million houses that are currently renter households that are valued in this range, that are single family that can be that are in our market. And so South Bend is an example where actually I think just like 21% of its housing stock is in this range. In South Bend is there’s many South bands across the country that we can tap into.

Eric Hornung 33:26
When you think about going to market, you kind of have this supply side, which is the owners of all those houses you just mentioned. And then you have the demand side, which is the renters. How do you think about going to market at both of those?

Jada McLean 33:39
Yeah, so we have a bit of, you know, the marketplace issue, what we’ve done is we’ve built up a lot of demand side, we know that there’s a lot of people that want this. So we build up a kind of like pre qualified list of, of residents that want to do this. And then we’ve have gone to the landlords are much easier to convince when you say oh actually have 30 people waiting to take a look at this house. And that’s basically what we’ve done. It’s it’s a little bit of kind of filling a funnel on the demand side. And then the supply side comes.

Jay Clouse 34:13
I totally believe that’s, that’s true. Do you have to find them digitally? Like by getting in front of them saying, Hey, did you know you could own a home? Or could you like, get them from the rejections of bank mortgages? Like how do you actually compile that list?

Jada McLean 34:25
What we’ve been doing has been a mixture of a few things, because I mean, I think we’re in the stage where we should be testing everything, any and everything. So we’ve done some digital, we’ve done some direct mailers, we’re like, hey, tenants, why don’t you just ask your landlord if he’d be up for this? We’ve done some kind of local media that we posted on Facebook, that’s actually done the best. Like, I think we had this little ABC 57 clip, that was a minute long. And it was just me and my co founder talking about hurry all before we even did anything. And people eat it up. It’s one of those posts on Facebook, that people just like put other people’s names on. And then they also have their some trolls and stuff. But we have a great comment from one of our one of the woman it’s one of our customers now. So one that got declined, put under the comment, like in capital letters fake? And then one of our buyers, she said no, they actually really do help you get a house. And it was amazing. Yeah, so amazing. So those things work a lot. I think the authenticity is a big factor and very important for our customers.

Jay Clouse 35:27
How high touch does it have to be from your team to work this out? Like if there’s 20% of the housing stock? Is this Do you still have to land and expand and each market as Hurry Home? Or can you deploy this and people can take it off the shelf somehow?

Jada McLean 35:42
Yeah, I think what we’ve seen from the buyer side or resident side is that it hasn’t been that high touch, it’s been you know, initial contact, they do pre qualification, we maybe we were doing like a welcome call because it feels good. And then they fit go through the application or a transaction data, all that stuff. And then they just go on visits the pic the house they want and then they move in. And then on the landlord side, it’s it’s I’d say it’s probably equal touch, we may have like a call with them to clarify some things about their house. And then you kind of send out a home inspection and do that, make sure it’s all all good and ready for a tenant and make the match.

Jay Clouse 36:19
How…even like the time to work with that homeowner and then to send an inspection like that’s an expensive activity at the start. You said you had an onboarding fees that probably covers a lot of it is like a breakeven period of how much time you have to put into a property for it makes sense for you?

Jada McLean 36:36
I most of it…can be like through filters can be like I guess pre qualified, right? They will have a house and say okay, well, we can like read our buyers or residents are interested in this. We know that they’re probably this artist is probably not going to pass a home inspection. So there’s no point we’re able to minimize the amount that spent on on houses that we know will qualify. Lot of that’s through technology. It’s Hey, send us your your house details we’ll take a look and let you know if it’s house that we think will be fits our criteria.

Eric Hornung 37:09
It’s kind of like a roof sock in that way. So I want to turn this a little bit you mentioned that you’re in South Bend but you’re also in Chicago. You did TechStars Chicago, you have a network in New York. How is raising going to expand this what’s perception to the pilot? Like what’s the network in South Bend? Like just kind of talk to me about like, what the future of financing this business looks like?

Jada McLean 37:30
I guess yeah, the network in South Bend I’d say is like obviously great for customers and operating the business unsure exactly what the network would look like for for raising when when that time comes. My definitely tap into a lot of my network in Chicago and New York because I think New York is is more heavily focused on FinTech. And there’s definitely people interested in, in not only FinTech, but solving the affordable housing issue, and and interested in how and how can we come up with new type new ways of funding? mortgages or houses? Same with SF, I’d say there’s some good amount of interest in in affordable housing, especially looking at DV homes, you know, they’ve raised a ton of money from Andreessen Horowitz and, and maybe PayPal, not really 100% sure. But I do think that there has been some really good person like really good perception of what we’re doing. And people are really excited to see us people were really excited to see us get our first customers, and definitely interested in invested in our growth over the next 18 months. What did you get out of the TechStars? experience? Yeah, the TechStars was an amazing experience. I think, especially as someone that you know, maybe have a bit of a network in New York, and met everyone there is to meet in South Bend, I really needed to build a network in Chicago, because Chicago is I’d say that like a Midwest headquarters, especially for for this for startups. That’s where there’s a good amount of funding in Chicago. So that was so XRS gave me all the access I needed to all the people in Chicago. So I now say that I have a very robust network there. And if there’s anything I do want to learn about or anything that I’m struggling with, there’s someone that’s just a called away, or like 10 step, doorway.

Jay Clouse 39:18
What does Hurry Home look like five years from now? What’s your vision for it?

Jada McLean 39:21
Yeah, Hurry Home looks like we’re in probably too many markets I couldn’t even count didn’t even know about definitely probably in excess of 20,000 transactions. That’s all I really would hope for is that we were delivering homeownership, and that we have no huge lawsuits. That’s the big one.

Jay Clouse 39:42
How about from like, an experience perspective on both sides of the market? What does it look like five years from now for someone who has a home to experience Hurry Home? And what is it look like for the buyer to experience? Hurry Home?

Jada McLean 39:53
Yeah, so for someone that has a home, is, I think at the five year mark, they’ve gotten really comfortable with being a homeowner. And they are have really integrated within their neighborhood, I think their neighborhood as so one of the metrics we use is that the neighborhood has greater than 65% homeowners, it’s deemed a healthy neighborhood. So in all the cities ever in we’d like for those neighborhoods to be at that 65%. Because that means that kids are probably running on the street. That means that there’s other infrastructure being built around the neighborhood to support the neighborhood, and that there’s other probably money and other investors coming into the greater city as well. Because we’ve we’ve made it such an attractive place for people to live and grow out. And then I guess on the property investor side, I hope that their experiences, we’ve actually had to be very hands off, we don’t really interact with the resident, we have cash flow coming in every month, religiously, when if there’s problem Hurry Home handles, and does it and I’m very happy with return I have and I’m looking forward to seeing this family purchased the rest of my house.

Jay Clouse 41:04
I’m gonna ask one more question on a similar note. So let’s pretend that the homeowner hasn’t started with her home and home, you know, the tenant, the potential home buyer hasn’t started either five years down the line? How do I become aware of it? And how do I actually interact with you as the business or the software to make this transaction happen? What’s the journey look like?

Jada McLean 41:23
Yeah, so you probably become aware of it through friends of friends, maybe your friend that lives in the same neighborhood, as you was like, Hey, I actually just moved into my new Hurry Home. It’s awesome. You should totally do it. It’s totally accessible. You can even use your tax, what is that your tax refund to pay for your down payment. And they are like, okay, cool, they’ll cover mine, they will get pre qualified and go through the whole qualification process, which should take 24 hours, and then they will be able to access the listings of homes that are in there neighborhood, maybe even next door to the person that suggested they do hurry on, they put down to the downpayment, they actually visited and then they move in. And on the investor side, they have gone to Hurry Home probably saw it probably heard about it from a realtor or heard about it from is one of our like business development kind of sales people saw it on potentially, like, like Rei as a real estate investment Association type thing. As a cool, I’m actually in the market or new property manager. But this actually seems like a better way to go with my property, and this little social value. And they put their house on the website, we say, Yeah, it’s great fit for us. We listed in two weeks later, there is someone we choose someone just to live in their house, and they just start receiving money in the bank.

Eric Hornung 42:53
How big is your team right now?

Jada McLean 42:54
Two of us are full time. And then we have it’s myself. And then john, my co ES lots of the operations on the resident tenant side. His background is in like micro finance and housing, as well as other social tech ventures and marketplaces is product guy. And and then we also have some tech that we work with, as well aren’t full time yet but hoping to make that full time in the near future. And they’ve helped us build out in our initial kind of underwriting and buyer qualification systems.

Eric Hornung 43:31
Outside of the tech. Let’s say you raised a round of non dilutive funding for whatever reason, and who would be your next big hire?

Jada McLean 43:42
My next big hires a digital marketing specialist. And that’s mostly because we really need to understand like blow out the funnel here in South Bend, but also start understanding the nuances in marketing and other markets and Indiana, but also in Ohio.

Jay Clouse 43:57
I don’t ask this many crystal ball questions. I know, I know, you’ve asked me some questions, but I feel like I want to for some reason. So if, let’s say five years from now, again, let’s call it 10…10 years from now, if Hurry Home no longer existed for some reason, what would be the reason that it didn’t work?

Jada McLean 44:14
The reason it didn’t work, I think the only thing that could really break the model is default, right? Because that’s the value prop is that we’re saying these residents are very good residents. They have a demonstrated track record of paying rent paying utility and be responsible. And if for some reason that is not the case, then our supply side doesn’t get the value.

Jay Clouse 44:37
It just goes away. So like the risk is the tenants proved to be bad tenants. And so people say I don’t want to be on that platform because my tenants suck. Yeah. But there’s no there’s no real loss in the system. Other than like, just trust on the supply side. Yeah. People aren’t like necessarily losing more money. Yeah. Because it seems it seems like there’s not a lot of risk here. For people to try it out. And if an aggregate works, you know, yeah, it seems like a resilient model.

Eric Hornung 45:04
Let’s hope so. I mean, only time will tell. Is there anything? We aren’t asking that we should be asking?

Jada McLean 45:11
I feel like some people ask a lot about, you know, marketplace, the marketplace. Chris, how long does it actually take to make this match? Which I think is a serious question. And that’s something that we are pretty laser focused on. I think in the in the deals we’ve already done. It’s been as quick as one week, but it’s also been as long as like six weeks. So I think the sweet spot is, can we get it in that two to three weeks range?

Jay Clouse 45:33
If I’m a property owner, I’m probably not exclusively listing it on Hurry Home, right, I’m probably still listening it on rental sites. And so the question is, Can I get a quick enough compelling offer to sell the home versus continue to just rent it?

Jay Clouse 45:47
Right, exactly. I mean, assuming that, yeah, someone would buy it at a price that you deem reasonable.

Jay Clouse 45:55
And so what’s for for most property owners who are renting now in these markets of 50? That thousand dollar homes? What’s the matching time for them with standard means right now?

Jada McLean 46:04
Yeah, so I would compare it to like a property manager. It’s like how do we how do we match the times of property managers and that can be from three weeks to two months. So I think for us Our goal is can we fill these houses in three weeks? And I think that will be sufficient enough for any landlord.

Jay Clouse 46:22
One more question that I’m on user behavior people who want to rent the homes you know if I’m if I’m buying a home just as me right now and I’m looking at a standard home purchase situation. I’m super picky You know, I’m looking for like the best thing that I can how sensitive to small things or like how how picky are people in this situation?

Jada McLean 46:41
They I’d say that from the people that we know there’s one of our customers she is was renting the house that she wanted so that was to them actually very easy renting the home they wanted and then another one was very picky, I say she saw probably 15 houses that’s something we learned a good lesson from we would curve that I think we would try to go the typical realtor route or it’s like the show you you three or four houses, you know what the best one being in the middle. And then there’s, I think others are probably more in that three to four range. They’ll see three to four and then they’re pretty happy. We know the like a lot of a lot of families prefer like a three bedroom or two bedroom basement so we know the the the some of the amenities that sell pretty quickly. And as long as they have kind of those big those big things. Families are pretty keen on moving in.

Jay Clouse 47:30
Awesome. Well, Jada, thanks so much for taking the time. If people want to learn more about you or Hurry Home after the show, where should they go?

Jada McLean 47:35
Feel happy to feel free to shoot me an email at CEO@hurryhome.io or you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Jada McLean.

Jay Clouse 47:51
All right, Eric, we just spoke with Jaden McClain of Hurry Home. Where do you want to start, you want to start opportunity, you want to start founder, How you feeling?

Eric Hornung 48:00
I want to start with the fact that I was just so completely unaware of 20% of the US housing stock is valued at or below $80,000.

Eric Hornung 48:10
That’s wild

Jay Clouse 48:11
Living in Cincinnati as you do. And me living in Columbus, that probably feels very strange to us and pretty burgeoning housing markets.

Eric Hornung 48:19
Even in Cleveland, I feel like when you’re just kind of looking around properties, you don’t really see much under $100,000. So it’s crazy to me that there is so much that is that inexpensive.

Jay Clouse 48:30
I like this path. As I said in the intro, you’ve listened to every episode of the bigger pockets podcast. And so being someone that’s much more learned in terms of real estate, what else stuck out to you here.

Eric Hornung 48:41
I guess I never really thought about the incentives of mortgage issuers to issue on the larger and larger houses like it’s not worth it to them to issue mortgages for a $60,000 house. Because just the way that the incentives and the fees, and the percentages are all set up. It’s something I never really had thought about. I figured any volume they could get they would want. But it seems like no, we want the bigger ones, we want to go bigger and bigger.

Jay Clouse 49:12
Similarly, and this did not come up in the interview. But dating a realtor, there’s not a lot of incentive for a buying or selling agent to get involved here either because their Commission’s are based off of the size of the closing. So I wonder if there’s even a gap of education or accessibility for people trying to get into these homes, because they’re not going to be working with probably the best realtors. Because while they spend their time there, right, the system is set up so that 20% of the housing stock is essentially underserved. That’s wild, wild. And also Well to me that all that being true. I didn’t find any true competitive companies to what Hurry Home is doing other than traditional rent to own, which I don’t know a whole lot about, it seemed like a great idea conceptually, like when I think of the idea of rent a home, it’s like, yeah, that sounds amazing. Why wouldn’t I want to rent to own but it sounds like systemically, that process is not done in a way that really favors the renter. In the beginning. It sounds like it’s not, it’s kind of predatory. Do you know much about this?

Eric Hornung 50:11
I have a little bit of insight around it. I know that in the most recent Dodd Frank regulations, they kind of chopped back a lot of the predatory stuff to the point where rent to own became less prevalent than it used to be. But there was also it’s, I think it’s just like loan sharks it’s they get, they get to do something that is technically legal, while feeling very illegal. And I think rent to own was kind of in that same bucket, where they could take some liberties, they could take some excessive fees, but on a percentage basis are huge, because it’s small dollar values. So it always felt very predatory when you’re paying hundreds of percent interest or hundreds of percent in fees. But you’re buying a $60,000 house. So if it’s $1,000, you’re at, like 2% of already. So I know that there’s some political issues around it. I’m not the most well versed in what they are.

Jay Clouse 51:07
Let’s keep following this thread and dive into the opportunity here. First, before we talk about Jade as a founder, I really like the model. If it works, you know, to Jay’s point, what she needs to see is are people paying their rent payments, because if it works, it seems like both sides really win. And that there’s not really a risk to trying it out. If I have this home, and I’m trying to sell it and I’m having trouble selling it. This seems like a good means of doing that. And if they didn’t pay their rent, you’re not in much of a worse off spot unless you keep trying to sell your home in this way. And it keeps happening that people aren’t paying the rent. But it seems like as long as people are having a good experience on both sides, this is a really good option for both sides. And the model really works. What scares me is just the lead time to figure that out.

Eric Hornung 51:55
Yeah. Which is why I think they’re in a pilot phase right now. I really liked the model as well. So we’re anchored to like 5.5 million houses. I don’t know exactly how she got to that number. But there was a report that just came out last week that 40% of US households are own free and clear, which means they have no debt on them. And they’re just owned by the owner. I don’t know what percentage of those 5.5 million are rentals. I don’t know which percent have landlords, I don’t know which percent are just owned by these people who are sitting on the houses and will never be a potential Hurry Home customer. So I have a little bit of a difficult time addressing this market in terms of the supply side directly. That being said, it’s a large market.

Jay Clouse 52:40
Seems large, the model is clear charging $70 per house per month, to the landlord who is using Hurry Home. I don’t know if there’s any risk of landlord going outside of the platform or like using the platform to find buyers and going outside of it. It seems like the software does play a really convenient turnkey solution to get paid on landlord side. So we’ll just set aside that brief shadow I had in my mind. That seems clear to me difficult to build a marketplace in anything. And to her point. Can we fill houses in three weeks? Can a landlord find a buyer that wants that house in a short period of time more successfully than putting it on the MLS? Or going through Zillow or Redfin to find a buyer out, right. That’s the bed. And you know, we have this pilot try to figure it out. What did you think about the model of we adjust the payment to be a 10 year time horizon for all homes.

Eric Hornung 53:35
I think it makes sense from kind of both sides in that you don’t want it to be too short, because then the costs are going to be too high for the renter, and you want to be too long, because then the return is going to be too low for the landlord. So they got to find a middle ground. I don’t know if it’ll stay 10 years or funnel move. And that’s kind of one of the questions I have about this model is pricing, is it going to move where’s it going to be? The payback period is going to move? Where’s it going to move, and I think you’ll get some of those answers from the pilot here. One last thing I want to mention on pricing that I have a bit of a shadow about is when you think about landlords, there’s almost always the option for a landlord to have a property manager, the industry standard is like 10% of the door price. So if rents in this unit are $700 a month, then the property manager would get $70 a month in the forums and stuff that I’ve been a part of. And the podcast I’ve listened to. Most people who are investing as an investor are hesitant to hire a property manager, because that eats into their margin. So if this is seen as a substitute for a property manager to decrease vacancy by the landlord, I would be curious just to see what feedback is in terms of the price point. And interest. I think she mentioned that with a 10 year time horizon, their massive has led to slightly above market rates in terms of rent, right, so that’s on the revenue side. But on the cost side, they’re charging something as well. So if you have a property manager, and then you have Hurry Home, now you’re at on, on $700 rents, you’re at 20% of your rents going directly to third parties before you have to pay for all of your other costs that go along with the building, paying off a mortgage if you have one. And just as an investor getting to your net operating income.

Jay Clouse 55:26
So let’s transition here into Jada as a founder. She mentioned that she had she had the path of being a Los Angeles native going to do for college investment banking in New York, and then looking for problems to solve should start a company in haircare. What did you take away from Jada’s story as a founder?

Eric Hornung 55:46
I think the most telling thing about Jada was just her ability, like mental hurdle, overcoming ability to just move to South Bend, Indiana because she found something she really liked and enjoy. Like, as someone who’s from LA and lived in New York and went to Duke, like you’ve been around like, big kind of name, places. She went, she was at a bulge bracket in New York, like that’s the creme de la creme of graduating with a finance degree in terms of prestige and what you want to do. So doing that, and I’m sure, it wasn’t like mentally easy to leave that kind of lineage to go to South Bend, Indiana. But I really enjoyed that she that she made that leap and made it so quickly.

Jay Clouse 56:35
And it’s clear that she cares about the problem. Like it seems like she was taking a real intentional lens of Okay, I want to solve a problem, I want to start a company, I have this notebook full of ideas got presented with the opportunity to do this think tank and learn about this problem and said, You know what, I think I’m gonna solve that. Proceeding that move. I really like that. It’s really our first major swing of the bat at starting a company to this scale, going into TechStars Europe, which is a great sign. That seems like a big problem, a big opportunity a a wicked problem. So I like the audacity, and everyone’s got to start somewhere. So you know, can’t hold against somebody the fact that they’ve never done a company this scale before everyone starts somewhere. But you know, we have some founders on here that it’s their third company, they’re starting and they’ve they’ve gone through the song and dance before and for Jada it’s it’s not.

Eric Hornung 57:23
Yeah, I don’t think I have that same reservation, I think she has the capital markets background, she will went through TechStars. So she probably picked up a ton of the entrepreneurial stuff, I she’s got a pretty good spot to launch this even though it is in a place that is large. And you hear a lot of VCs talk about how they’ve been burned by real estate tech before. So it’s a it’s a hard space. But I don’t think that being a first time founder, for me, is a shadow of any sort. One last thing I want to mention that I’m excited about as an opportunity is taking this financing model and assuming the pilot works. And assuming they can build out a bit of a marketplace. I think that there is a huge opportunity here in terms of the education space and like a community space on the front end for onboarding people into this space. So creating a way in a kind of a program, if you will, or a game, if you will, to get people to the point where they can be on boarded and be that pipeline funnel for them. Assuming they can do this, I think that there are there probably isn’t as much targeted at this demographic. You have the fire movement with like the Mr. Money mustache is of the world you have the bigger pockets movement, which is at real estate investors, you have the fin twit movement, which is mostly geared towards people who I mean, when you look at wealth management or financial advisor, most of them are taking people who are either millennials and potential high income earners, or they currently have a net worth of over two $50,000. So I think this is a really underserved financial literacy area as well. And there aren’t many communities out there geared towards that. So you can really own the pipeline of potential customers for Hurry Home. In the future, if you can get this financing model to work.

Jay Clouse 59:17
I wonder how I don’t I don’t have a backstory on how Airbnb really grew into other markets quickly and defend it off competitors. Because this is going to be something where you launching a city, and you need to get density in that city for the marketplace to work or people won’t find their homes in that three week period of time. yada, yada, yada. So you’re gonna have to spend a lot of time and you should you go to wonder what it looks like to really spread this quickly, and ward off Hurry Home, you know, competitors, people who are seeing the model, seeing that it works and doing it in their own communities. Because it the geographic density is really, really important for this working in any one market, and then scale across the country. You know, what do you think about that?

Eric Hornung 59:58
I think that kind of plays into what I was just saying you can use an online community to spur interest and name recognition for Hurry Home. So when they launch in your market, you’re you’re already on boarded 100 people into your methodology, your thought and everything, rather than Airbnb, which just needed supply and was competing on price and was competing on locations and all that. I think this Yes, you’ll have to get the supply and demand. And like I said in the intro, I think this is going to be one of those things that if it works, you’re going to see a monster capital raise, you’re not going to see some small capital raise. But you could digitally create a community that on boards people for when you’re ready to move to their territory, you already have a community of people who are advocating for you because they’re learning through your platform. So what are you looking at in the next six to 18 months for Hurry Home? Jay, really just looking at the success and learnings should just say learnings from the pilot in what that means for model going forward? Are people still paying their rent? Are both sides of that pilot, the homeowner who is selling the home and the renter who is buying the home? Are they both still enjoying the experience? And then also, what does scaling this look like? What is their go to market plan look like? To the question I had just asked about warding off competitors and kind of going, are they following your content plan and following their your digital community idea? Or do they have a different plan? And for me, it’s something that might not even come true. But I want to look at the plan, the idea, the pilot, all in the context of the macro economic environment. So this is a little bit of a weird one, Jay, because unemployment at an all time low. And if we see unemployment rise, or there’s any type of recession or anything that happens, the cornerstone of this model is that renters pay rent on time. So if you they have to have their renters lose a job, are they still paying rent on time? Is this a resistant model? Or is this model subject to macroeconomic changes? Maybe 618 months is too close to the time frame. I’m not calling a top or anything. I just, we’re at all time highs and a lot of things. So I want to think about how this model exists in changing economic climates.

Jay Clouse 1:02:23
Also be an interesting time to look at their fundraise and what that looks like are they planning a big raise? Alright guys would love to hear your thoughts on Hurry Home, you can email us hello@upside.fm or tweet at us at upside FM. If you are a home owner or home seller who is in this market who has homes that are less than $1,000. We’d love to hear from you and hear your take on this. So email us Hello at upside down FM or tweet at us at upside FM and we’ll talk to you next week.