CC040: Recapping CES 2020 with fellow Media Trailblazers Hayden Field (Entrepreneur) and Lindsay Bjerregaard (Aviation Week)

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Lindsay Bjerregaard 0:00
You would actually, you know, call an Uber to take you to a verta port somewhere in the city, or whatever, to go get on your, your ride and go somewhere else. But there was one company that I saw called Pegasus that has created a flying car concept that they literally say, like, you can fly this into your garage like it can transition with the push of a button, supposedly between driving and flying until it will be like one person’s personal car that they could have.

Jay Clouse 0:28
The startup investment landscape is changing, and world class companies are being built outside of Silicon Valley. We find them, talk with them and discuss the upside of investing in them. Welcome to Upside.

Eric Hornung 0:55
Hello, hello, and welcome to the Upside podcast, the first podcast finding upside outside of Silicon Valley. This week we’re finding upside at CES. It’s a little different because, Jay, someone decided we are tech journalists.

Jay Clouse 1:10
Isn’t that great? Isn’t that great to be recognized or anointed or appreciated? Really, it’s just being appreciated.

Eric Hornung 1:19
Being appreciated is nice. I like that. One of the things that’s coolest about being here at CES is that we get to network with people who are young professionals in the tech journalist space through the CES Media Trailblazers program, which is sponsored by CTA, the organization that puts on CES. There are 19 of us running around CES this year, and a few of them decided they wanted to hop on the mics with us today.

Jay Clouse 1:46
Yeah, we’ve reached the end of the show here. It’s a wrap. We’ve walked around for several days between many, many exhibitions and showcase halls. We’ve seen a lot and honestly there’s so much here that one person couldn’t see at all. So, instead of trying, we are going to bring in several more of those trailblazers into this episode to play a little game of pass the mics and get a breakdown of what everyone thought about this year’s show at CES 2020.

Eric Hornung 2:10
We also want to hear a little bit about the future of tech journalism, what they’re seeing in their careers, and give you guys a little bit of insight into what tech media is like.

Jay Clouse 2:22
So we hope you enjoy this little bit of a wrap up from CES 2020 with media trailblazers. We’ll let those Trailblazers introduce themselves on this recording. And we’ll get into that right after this. Eric, let’s pretend that you’re going to take initiative and start a company. Following?

Eric Hornung 2:39
Never done that.

Jay Clouse 2:40
All right, well, you helped start the Up company here, so a little concerned.

Eric Hornung 2:44
Just kidding, Jay, of course I-Let’s, let’s pretend, let’s go down your hypothetical path.

Jay Clouse 2:49
And let’s pretend that you are trying to find some of the most talented engineers to help you get that company started. How many engineers do you think you know?

Eric Hornung 2:57
Not enough.

Jay Clouse 2:58
Not enough, and that’s why I would recommend you work with our friends over at Integrity Power Search. Integrity Power Search is the number one full stack high growth startup recruiting firm between the coasts. They partner with venture capitalists, private equity groups, and CEOs like you, Eric to build amazing teams for the world’s most disrupting companies. If I’m hiring, if I’m trying to find good engineers, I’m not going to rely on my small group of connections. I’m going to go to a group like Integrity Power Search who has thousands and thousands of potential connections, potential hires for my company.

Eric Hornung 3:30
That sounds like enough to me.

Jay Clouse 3:31
Sounds like enough sounds like you’re going to find the best talent when you can dip into a larger pool. They’ve executed more than 600 searches successfully, and they’re on track for more than 200 in 2019 alone. Their clients have collectively raised over $2.5 billion with a B, Eric, in venture capital funding and counting. So if you guys want to learn more about Integrity Power Search, go to to get started with their team.

Jay Clouse 4:02
Hayden, Lindsey, welcome. Thanks for joining us. Would love to introduce you guys first, and we’ll go one by one. So we’ll start with you, Lindsay, because I’m looking at you and making eye contact directly. Can you introduce yourself and who you write for?

Lindsay Bjerregaard 4:14
Sure. Um, so I’m Lindsey Bjerregaard. I’m a writer with Aviation Week. So I cover all different aviation topics.

Hayden Field 4:20
And I’m Hayden field. I’m an Associate Editor at Entrepreneur. So I cover tech, business, and some investigative features. I also freelance a lot.

Jay Clouse 4:28
What did you come to CES, like what were your expectations of what you were going to write while you were here or produced while you were here?

Hayden Field 4:35
We had three main articles we kind of wanted to prioritize. One was things you’ll actually want to buy at CES, because there’s so much, it’s called Consumer Electronics Show, but obviously, there’s a lot of not direct to consumer products there. So we usually do a 25 strong roundup of that. And then, of course, the most bizarre things we saw at CES because there’s always though it’s coming out of the woodwork. And then, finally, the coolest startups we found because it’s Entrepreneur Magazine, so our audience really likes that. And then I also took over social media while I was here. So did a lot of interesting stories that way.

Eric Hornung 5:12
How many ideas don’t make the cut of those three articles?

Hayden Field 5:16
Ideas at, like, that I see on the show. I mean, walking around the show, I would say, it was much easier to find things that didn’t fit than things that did. First of all, it had to be a direct to consumer product. And second of all, it had to be something that you would actually want to buy. So that double whammy really ruled out a lot of stuff. But yeah, there’s still a lot of great stuff this year. And thinking about the Entrepreneur audience, it’s just important to think about someone that is either just started or wants to start a business or is just kind of milling the around in their head.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 5:46
You know, I was obviously here to cover aviation topics. And what I came in for sure knowing that I wanted to cover was that there were a couple different companies, they’re going to be debuting flying taxi concepts. One was Bell, and they had a concept last year that they kind of made over for this year, so I wanted to cover that. And then Hyundai, which normally makes cars, was debuting their version of like a personal Ed tall, electric, vertical takeoff and landing vehicle. And so I definitely wanted to cover that. But then the other aspect of it that I was making sure that I wanted to do was kind of roaming the various show floor halls and just seeing all different kinds of technologies that were related to aviation or that could be used within different aspects of aviation. And there was a lot of cool stuff this year that I did not expect to find.

Jay Clouse 6:27
I saw the Uber-Hyundai chopper, which was like, imagine a helicopter shaped thing, but that had like spokes off of it like a drone. Eric, am I describing that?

Eric Hornung 6:37
Yeah, very poorly.

Jay Clouse 6:38
Very poorly. But I think there’s a point across. What was the the Bell flying taxi like? What was the form factor of that?

Lindsay Bjerregaard 6:45
I mean, so that one, it’s a similar type of platform, I guess, you know, last year’s when they had it was enormous. It was huge. It had six of those big rotors, you know, those big rotating duck fans on the side. And so they kind of scaled it down a little bit this year. It’s got four instead of six. And they made it all electric this year. And so kind of the model that they’re looking at with that is for it to be a flying taxi. And they’re also working with rideshare companies so that you could, at some point in the future, be able to call this flying taxi to come pick you up with a verta port and take you where you want to go.

Jay Clouse 7:18
Rotors is the right word. Rotors is the word I should have you.

Eric Hornung 7:21
Yeah, that’s a better word.

Jay Clouse 7:22
Is there, like, is there enough airspace? I’m so far away from the aviation industry that I don’t even know how the industry is thinking about this. Is there enough airspace and people to like, manage things that are flying in that airspace to have any level of volume to see, like–We see tons of taxes in the road. Are we going to see that many taxis in the sky? Or what does that look like?

Lindsay Bjerregaard 7:42
Yeah, so that’s actually one of the huge like talking point topics that’s been going on about the whole urban air mobility thing. You know, obviously air traffic management is going to be huge if that really takes off between you know, all of the aircraft that are already flying and then drones and now flying taxis, urban air mobility vehicles. They’re kind of trying to figure out with the FAA and different regulatory authorities how they’re going to handle that. I don’t think it’s going to be like the Jetsons in the future, where we’re going to have a bazillion things flying through the air at the same time, but you never know. You know, a lot of these companies are expecting to, or saying, that they want to be flying these things by, like, 2023, 2025. So I guess we’ll see. And with air traffic control at the airports that we’re still pretty far from that, right?

Hayden Field 8:26
Like, I feel like every time I’m at the airport, there’s a delay because of air traffic control just from those however many planes.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 8:32
Sure. Yeah, I mean, I’m a little skeptical about it, I think. But you know, there’s a lot of very smart people working on it. So hopefully, they’re gonna figure out the right way to handle that.

Jay Clouse 8:40
I heard someone describe the flying car, you know, delay thing. You know, at some point, someone predicted would have flying cars by the year 2000 or something, and people are like, Where’s my flying car? And someone was like, we can do the tech, but would you want your neighbor to have a flying car? And I was like, Oh, that’s a really good point. Like, I don’t know.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 8:57
I mean, like a lot of these, the two big ones that I meant from Bell and Hyundai are both ones that kind of are more based on a model where, like, you would actually, you know, call an Uber to take you to a verta port somewhere in the city or whatever to go get on your, your ride and go somewhere else. But there was one company that I saw called Pegasus that has created a flying car concept that they literally say, like, you can fly this into your garage, like it can transition with the push of a button supposedly between driving and flying. And so it would be like one person’s personal car that they could have. So that would be the one you would need to worry about if you don’t want your neighbor flying a car through the air right next to your house.

Eric Hornung 9:37
Pegasus is such a great name for that company.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 9:39

Eric Hornung 9:40
It reminds me of like the Hercules cartoon growing up when he just like hops on the horse and flies away. So you saw a lot of flying car concepts. Jay and I, I think when you go to CES, like everyone kind of looks at it from their own filter. And for Jay and I we saw like an over representation of gaming smart cities, was probably the third one, storytelling VR, maybe.

Jay Clouse 10:03
We saw a lot of sleep tech.

Eric Hornung 10:04
You saw a lot of sleep tech.

Jay Clouse 10:06
But I saw it on like directional signs all over the place. Like that took up a lot of space. I think robotics was a trend that you and I didn’t spend a ton of time looking at. But I heard a lot of people talking about robotics. I did see the Wasabi, the adorable little baby robot.

Eric Hornung 10:20
So I started that not to hear from you, but from Hayden, because I want to hear what she saw as like the things that popped out to you as overrepresented this year.

Hayden Field 10:28
Well, first of all, yeah, sleep tech, it was kind of funny to me, because I remember a couple years ago, it wasn’t even really a category. Sleep Number was kind of one of the first companies to make that a viable whole area. So yeah, there was a lot about this year more than usual. But anyway, yeah, overrepresentation. I saw a lot of kind of single use robots that maybe you wouldn’t really want taking up space in your house if you are actually going to, you know, implement this into your consumer life.

Jay Clouse 10:58
What do you mean by single use?

Hayden Field 11:00
They’re only used for one thing.

Eric Hornung 11:02
Has anyone here seen seen Rick and Morty, the robot that just passes butter? That’s its sole job? That’s the guy who I think about.

Hayden Field 11:09
Exactly. So one example that everyone’s talking about is of course, and this hasn’t rolled out for consumer use yet, but they want to do and then in the future, they said, Charman’s robot. So the little toilet paper toting robot that you can call to come to your aid if you’re like, stranded in the bathroom. And so, that’s kind of a classic example because, okay, you know, yeah, that can be a problem for some people. But if you have to foresight to buy the robot, load it with toilet paper, and have the door open already to the bathroom, like, can’t you just put more toilet paper in the bathroom? So yeah, I saw a lot of things that were kind of flashy, but maybe not super useful for the everyday consumer. But there’s also some really groundbreaking stuff. One of my favorite areas is Eureka Park, which is all the startups one of our articles, we’re writing like ‘Coolest Startups We Found This Year.” Kind of a allows me to go outside the, like, consumer gadget space and just spotlight cool startups that are maybe not making products that you might buy as a consumer. So there was someone that was doing some really cool stuff for internet of things security since a lot of those devices are decades behind in terms of security. There is someone doing smart roads by way of really cool new radar technology that can kind of help autonomous vehicles avoid a crash in lane two, for example. And then also a really cool like baby monitor company that’s using breathing sensors to help prevent Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. So yeah, just really cool stuff like that around that area. And it was also cool I was separated by country, so you know you could go into Japan aisle, the Singapore aisle, the Israel isle and see startups from all over the world.

Eric Hornung 12:50
We went to the Italy aisle right before this and got some wine because they invited us to their little cocktail hour.

Jay Clouse 12:56
Bad wine.

Eric Hornung 12:57
Jay, you don’t need to trash Italian wine on this podcast.

Jay Clouse 13:01
I don’t even know if it was Italian wine. It was… think I had champagne. Is champagne wine technically?

Eric Hornung 13:06

Jay Clouse 13:06
You’re the wine guy.

Hayden Field 13:07
It looks chic. It looks chic. Like I went through that it was like all white and like they had the flags and the really nice non fluorescent lighting. They had it on lock.

Jay Clouse 13:16
What do you, what else do you think was up overrepresented, Eric?

Eric Hornung 13:18
Overrepresented? VR/AR. I feel like every single hall had VR AR something. Could be VR/AR gaming, VR/AR health, VR/AR whatever. And sometimes it didn’t even feel like it was VR/AR. It just felt like, yes, this is a product, and there’s some very miniscule component that fits this trend that people have been talking about for what I feel like is, like, five years and just has not come to fruition in terms of adoption yet.

Jay Clouse 13:46
I’m thinking more about the robots side of things. And I don’t think we saw like an extensive showcase of those robots, but the ones we saw didn’t really seem to have a practical use.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 13:58
All a little cute robot.

Jay Clouse 13:59
Yeah. Like we saw those very modular round things that were just dancing to music as like vertical stick. And it’s like okay this was cool for this booth that you probably paid thousands and thousands of dollars for, but like, what, for what? What is the end game here?

Eric Hornung 14:15
So that I can set it to milkshake by…

Hayden Field 14:19
Kelis. Yeah.

Jay Clouse 14:20
It was good.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 14:21
Did you guys see the creepy robot in the Japan aisle in Eureka park that like would just stare at you and blink and, like, turn her head?

Jay Clouse 14:29
Erica? Did it look like one of those old arcade machines that was, like, from the chest up that like was a person?

Lindsay Bjerregaard 14:35
Yeah, and she, like, could sense you and turn her head to look at you, and then just…Yes, her Oh my gosh.

Jay Clouse 14:40
I tried to talk to her, and it was it was nonsensical. She was saying, like, very bizarre things about like calculations.

Eric Hornung 14:47
She told, I said, Hi Erica, and she said, Hi, my name is Erica. And I said I think we already established that. She said, the establishment is what calculates itself. And I said,All right, goodbye.

Jay Clouse 14:58
Yeah, it’s interesting. I wonder like what’s running that because it wasn’t, it didn’t have like some sort of logic tree of, when I hear something related to this, I’m going to go to this response. It was creating dynamic sentences on the fly that didn’t really make sense. And that’s interesting. Like, I kind of wonder, if you’re a company like that, what is your play in going to CES? Is it just trying to catch the eye of somebody who you think is going to want to take what you’ve built so far and build from it and partner with you on it? Because like, there’s no clear consumer use of that yet.

Hayden Field 15:27
I think you’re right. And I think it’s about being flashy, and like getting your name out there, and maybe finding investors that will take it further. But you’re right. I mean, one of my…I’ve seen so many robots that have names like that. And I keep thinking like, when I have kids one day, I don’t want them to have the same name as like, What if you were, what if your name was Alexa, can you imagine? So yeah, I just always think about that. Like Erica, they all have women’s names. And I’m like, well, we gotta really be creative with names in the future.

Eric Hornung 15:56
When you guys are walking around CES, and you have your pre-plan for places you want to go. But as you’re walking around and you see other booths, what are the things that catch your eye to make you stop and look at that booth?

Lindsay Bjerregaard 16:09
I hate to say this because it makes me sound like a dumb baby, but like bright colors, things that, you know, just looked really interesting. I mostly, like, tried to avoid ones that I knew weren’t going to be useful for me. But there were certain ones that I actually stopped and listened to their spiel just because it looked kind of cool. You know, for instance, there was one in Eureka park that it was, like, a company that created a solution for bars and restaurants and, like, hotels to be able to, I guess, make the most out of single-pour wine servings. And so it was like, you know, bars have trouble–supposedly, according to this person–making money off of single-pour wine. And like the machine that they had for it, it like came in a strange container, like the wines came in a container rather than a bottle, and you could just portion it out correctly. It was able to be programmed to, like, keep it at the correct temperature so that it wouldn’t go bad and like meter out the exact amount that you should get. So I guess no more generous pours from a bar if you’re going to order wine.

Eric Hornung 17:07
Bankrupt that startup.

Jay Clouse 17:08
Yeah, exactly. As a bartender, they have, like, businesses that have been doing this kind of pour and spill management because it’s such a loss for the business when bartenders are generous. They think. Like if you just think in terms of volume. But it’s such a bummer as a bartender, because it takes away like this point of customer service that you can give people. Like at your discretion, oh it’s your birthday, I’m going to give the person whose birthday it is a free shot. Like if you don’t match up with the quota of what is measured before and after on the bottles, you could get penalized for that and some bars. Just crazy.

Eric Hornung 17:41
How do you decide if something’s bizarre as you’re walking around?

Hayden Field 17:44
For me, it’s kind of like, I was trying to figure out what to name this article. So most bizarre, weirdest, craziest. And I feel like the way I decided on bizarre was just things that you’re just like, what? Like it makes you say that in your mind. So one of them was of course that toilet paper robot. One of them was this like gold plated keyboard that’s like $10,000. One of them was…you guys might have seen this. There’s one startup here that has the tagline “Shop with Your DNA.” So it’s a whole wall and it just says really big “Shop with Your DNA,” the scariest tagline I’ve ever heard in my life because it sounds like you’re using your DNA as like currency to shop. Actually, it’s a, like, nutrition company and you send in a sample of your saliva and then they analyze it, digitize it, upload it to, like, your wearable armband. And then you when you’re grocery shopping, you scan the armband and it tells you–you scan a product with the arm and it tells you whether to buy it or not based on your DNA. But still scary because their fine print of their data use is not great. But yeah, so I mean, stuff that just makes me wonder why it exists or just that I’m surprised it does would fit in that category.

Eric Hornung 18:58
Did you see the smart potato?

Hayden Field 19:00

Eric Hornung 19:02
Look at this marketing.

Hayden Field 19:03
Oh my gosh. That reminds me of that Art Basel thing with that banana that’s like…

Jay Clouse 19:09
I don’t know we got close enough to hear the full pitch.

Eric Hornung 19:11
It was packed.

Jay Clouse 19:12
Yeah, our take on that is the thing coming out of the potato is actually what is being sold and marketed.

Eric Hornung 19:18
The antenna.

Jay Clouse 19:19
And that was just like superb booth design in a very crowded area in Eureka Park, because that was the most popular booth there. Because that was just like bizarre. That’s bizarre. That made you stop and think.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 19:31
That is amazing.

Jay Clouse 19:32
Were there any underwhelming aspects of CES or things that you came here expecting to see that you didn’t see? This is up to you, this is open to you too, Eric.

Eric Hornung 19:40
Have you guys ever heard Jay do an intro to Upside?

Lindsay Bjerregaard 19:45
I was I was thinking like that the free lunches in the press room were pretty underwhelming, but I don’t know if that count.

Hayden Field 19:50
Agreed. 100%.

Eric Hornung 19:52
That’s such a VIP problem.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 19:53
I know.

Hayden Field 19:56
Yeah, I mean, I guess I was hoping for, I mean, I haven’t traversed like the entire thing yet. So maybe that I just haven’t seen a lot of this. But I haven’t seen a lot of really like revolutionary use of AI yet. I’ve seen a lot of people using AI as a buzzword, kind of, like you were saying with AR/VR. You know, they’re just kind of throwing it around. And you know, maybe there’s a little bit of aspect of machine learning in their product, but it’s really kind of just meant to be flashy, which I understand because you’re trying to get someone’s attention in a sea of different booths. But yeah, one of the only things I’ve seen so far that really was an interesting use of AI was Neon. Did you guys see that? It’s like shrouded in mystery before CES and they have very thick black, like embossed business cards. So tells you a lot, but it’s a company that’s making “artificial humans,” air quotes.

Jay Clouse 20:52
We did see that.

Hayden Field 20:54
Yeah, it was really interesting. And their technology is like, very complicated. And it was hard for them to impart, but it was still cool to see. And they’re doing something that at least is like, I haven’t seen before.

Eric Hornung 21:05
None of their humans are out of shape.

Hayden Field 21:07
None of them are there was a yoga teacher. I was like, wow, you know, if I need to do yoga, I’ll start.

Jay Clouse 21:13
Yeah, I want, and they didn’t…Some of these booths. Like, that booth’s a great example of you see the technology, don’t know the consumer application of it, but you can you can kind of extrapolate some of that, right? You know, there there are countries now that have TV anchors, China, I think, right, specifically, deployed a TV anchor that is completely fabricated. So maybe there’s stuff like that, like, talk about taking people’s jobs, like things where people are being conduits of information but don’t have to creatively create that information to deploy a very human looking simulation. I can see that.

Eric Hornung 21:45
I think one of the things that’s underwhelming for me at CES is when you have, and I think this happens a lot, you have a product, and then there’s no like experience at that booth around a product. And products by themselves are just Like, inherently not interesting unless you can see that experience or experience that experience. And with so many people here, even the things that have experiences, like the Delta exoskeleton, yeah, if you want to wait in line for four and a half hours, then you can go like, check it out. But I think that more booths could do a better job of like, putting you in the place where you would be using their product and having that experience.

Hayden Field 22:24
I think you’re absolutely right. Like I saw a meditation device company today. And they definitely had room, they could of had like a little area for people to try it out. They didn’t. And you know, stuff like that would be really interesting. I also really get annoyed when booths you cannot tell at all what the product or thing is, without going up and literally asking someone or reading one of the pamphlets. Like, just have the tagline, have a little description just under the name of the thing because there’s, I would say 70% of the booths here, you have no idea what it is unless you ask.

Jay Clouse 22:56
And some of these are big companies too. It’s not all just the little guys at Eureka Park. Eric, that made me think, do you think there’s a world where the booth experience is done in VR, so you don’t have to bring the thing here, you just put on goggles at every booth and you check out the product.

Eric Hornung 23:09
You’re getting into my future of CES segment that I want to talk about.

Jay Clouse 23:13
So Lindsay, I imagine you saw the Delta parallel reality thing, which is one of my highlights of this show. You wanna, you want to describe that a little bit?

Lindsay Bjerregaard 23:22
Sure. So I mean, the the experience, how it works is when you go to the Delta booth, you essentially program in your name, and you choose a flight destination and the language other than your own, and they print out a little boarding pass for you. And you go into this room where they have four different screens, and on each screen, you get like the destination that correlates with your boarding pass. And they kind of explain how the technology works a little bit. And then you go into the second room, nd this is this kind of correlates to how it will actually work in real life, this technology. You scan your boarding pass, and there’s one single screen monitor. So everybody who looks at that screen monitor with their boarding pass is seeing their own information. So essentially, you know, you could be standing next to somebody who has seen something in Japanese, and then you’re standing next to them and you’re seeing your information in English about your flight to Tokyo and they’re seeing information about their flight to London. And it all shows up simultaneously.

Jay Clouse 24:21
And you can be literally feet if not inches away from these same people looking at the same display seeing different information.

Eric Hornung 24:29
This solves my problem I have with my fiance, which is we don’t like the same type of movies. And eventually, it just becomes TV screen technology. She could put on ‘Trolls’ and I can put on ‘The Departed’ and it’ll all be good.

Hayden Field 24:42
Wow ‘Trolls.’ What a throwback.

Jay Clouse 24:43
That sounds terrible.

Eric Hornung 24:44

Jay Clouse 24:45
That sounds like two very individual experiences experienced together.

Eric Hornung 24:48
Yeah. I mean, that’s what life is.

Jay Clouse 24:51
I mean, yeah, yes, yes, I think that’s both like dark and freeing. But at least if like you are looking at the same thing individually you can, like, relate your experiences together.

Eric Hornung 25:04
Well you can criticize my relationship all you want.

Hayden Field 25:07
Have you ever make, if they ever make like a way to do that with music, I will definitely use that with my boyfriend. He hates every single song I put on.

Jay Clouse 25:14
Yeah, I love that, and what I love about that example, Misapplied Science, Misapplied Sciences is the name of the company that has developed that. That was announced at the opening keynote, that Delta and the CEO at Bashton gave. Misapplied Sciences is a startup that Delta is partnering with to do this, which they mentioned several startups in their presentation. I really liked that, that’s a cool trend that, you know, I wish we saw more of at some of these giant booths. You know, Eric and I, we’re not here to cover Samsung, we’re not here to cover Sony. It’s interesting to see that stuff. But it’s really cool when we can mesh those worlds of like these big established companies with these startup companies as sort of, you know, outsourced research and development, so to speak.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 25:54
Yeah. And on that note, you know, I actually saw in Eureka Park, the guy who leaves Boeing HorizonX Ventures, he was there trying to talk to different startups and find new technologies that Boeing can invest in. And so you know, there’s definitely big companies that are having that on their radar, wanting to invest in new technologies, new startups, that kind of stuff.

Eric Hornung 26:12
What does that look like? He’s just walking around Eureka Park, talking to people just like we were?

Lindsay Bjerregaard 26:16
I mean, when I saw him, he was giving a presentation on the stage where he was kind of talking about, you know, the different types of technologies that Boeing HorizonX is looking for. But you know, I got the impression after speaking with him that he is actually going around to different booths, talking to different companies and just learning about their technologies, and I guess figuring out, you know, what ones could be applicable to the things that Boeing does.

Hayden Field 26:36
That makes sense because at one interview I was doing, a huge tech executive stopped by and they had kind to kick me off the interview. They’re like, I’m so sorry, but this guy came and he has to talk to him. So it was probably him.

Jay Clouse 26:48
The serendipity that can happen here and does in small or big ways for a lot of people probably can’t be overstated, because, you know, it’s hard to plan for that. That’s the definition of the word serendipity. But like you even later at night, when you’re not at the show, Eric and I were sitting at Blackjack the first night, and guy sits down next to us, he’s been doing broadcasting for like 34 years has been coming to CES for like 20 or 30 years. Also happens to be the head usher for the Green Bay Packers, like my favorite team. And then we saw him the next day just in the media room, because he’s here covering CES, like, and even meeting you guys, you know, all this stuff is some of the value of these live events that you can’t quite quantify or predict for that really makes the ticket price worth it sometimes.

Eric Hornung 27:32
I think there’s something to be said for having a group though, to start. So, Jay and I, when we first kind of like noodled on the idea of Upside before it was even Upside, or even anything close to it,we went up to Omaha for the Berkshire Hathaway conference with another podcast that had a group of people that gave you like a baseline. And I feel like this CES, one of the big reasons that we’ve had such a better time than we did last year is that we had this group of like trailblazers, you guys included. So I’d like to get your guys’s take on the Trailblazers program. How did you guys even hear about it? How did it come about?

Lindsay Bjerregaard 28:06
So I mean, I found out about it, I think they sent out a press release or something like that. And I had attended CES last year. So I was on the mailing list for that. And, you know, I heard about it. And I was like, Well, last year, when I went to see CES by myself and had no idea what I was getting into, it was difficult. It was stressful, just getting around and not realizing just the sheer scale of the show. And so, you know, one of the aspects of this program that they had advertised was that, you know, we would get special access to different resources to help us cover the show and make it easier, which they did. And then you know, I also thought that it was great that we got to meet different young journalists who are covering different things and kind of getting their perspective. And we had the group texts where people were giving each other tips about things that they were seeing, and I just thought that that was awesome.

Hayden Field 28:50
Agreed 100%. And same with me, last year was my first CES, and I came alone, I was covering for Entrepreneur alone, and I didn’t really know anyone. So like, I made one friend, you know, hung out a little bit. But I did feel pretty alone and very stressed because I didn’t really have an outlet besides working. And so I was doing all my articles, trying to meet my deadlines, and then I didn’t really have like, a fun outlet besides that, so it was nice to have, you know, a group and see what other people were covering like, you with aviation, Lindsay it was, it was really cool to see, you know, the angle you were taking with the conference and like the filter you had looking at it. Um, so yeah, it was it was cool to see, you know, people that I had followed their coverage, people that I met for the first time, and, you know, be able to, you know, see them walking around, give context to some of the things I was doing, you know, get tips through our group conversation and stuff. And it was also nice that there were a lot of expectations with trailblazers.It was just kind of, you know, we’re bringing you here, talk to each other, that’s it. There were that many stipulations.

Jay Clouse 29:55
It was like all value add.

Hayden Field 29:57
Exactly. So it’s just nice to have that kind of community and know that it was there if you needed it.

Jay Clouse 30:01
If somebody is going to come to CES as media, what advice would you give them? I’m gonna leave it that ambiguous.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 30:07
Oh my god. For starters, do not try to make appointments with companies at different convention halls within like two hours of each other because the amount of time that it takes to get anywhere at CES, whether that’s on foot, in traffic, between the different buildings, it takes way, way, way longer than you expect it to. And you will miss meetings, you will not make meetings, so be cognizant of that. Maybe just pick one or two halls right by each other in one day to hit, and then the next day go to different ones, because trying to cram it all in in one day was just not going to happen.

Hayden Field 30:39
Completely agree. I made that mistake my first year. So yeah, I just try to like pick one destination to go to each day, whether it’s the convention center, you know, sans Expo, things like that. I would also say don’t really make appointments with companies in general. Like the first time I came, I made a lot of appointments and it kind of robs you of the ability to explore and walk around and find things. And if your media, it’s rare that someone will say no to you for an interview or for a quick conversation, and you don’t really know how your week is going to look, you know what you’re going to be working on at any given point, where you’re going to be. So I would say unless it’s like a, you know, big name company that you know is going to fill up quickly, just don’t make appointments and just spend a lot of time walking around and discovering things on your own. I would also say, keep in mind the time difference, you know, if you’re from New York and you’re covering it for a new york publication, you’re going to need to write early in the morning so that you can get in your stuff before all your coworkers leave for the day. And finally, comfortable shoes, water, and snack. I cannot overstate, like even if you’re not a snacker, or you have to bring a lot of snacks, like this morning for breakfast, I literally had a banana and a granola bar that I brought with me because you don’t, a lot of the restaurants in Las Vegas are sit down, so you don’t have a Chipotle you can go grab a burrito and eat it on the go.

Jay Clouse 31:58
Hayden you, when we’re walking around one of the showcases earlier in the show, people were asking for your card, you didn’t have a card. People asking Eric for his card, he didn’t have a card, but he forgot his cards.

Eric Hornung 32:08
I have Jays cards in my back pocket.

Jay Clouse 32:10
Did you forget your cards? Or is that a strategy?

Hayden Field 32:12
I don’t have business cards, but I also don’t try to get them. Because it’s a great strategy as well. I feel like if I really, I can be a people pleaser in, like, on the fly situations like that. And so I think if I did have cards with me, I would give them out even if I wasn’t interested in the company at all, which leads to more emails for me, and I already get like 300 a day. So it’s great. I don’t mind that I don’t have cards with me. If I need to talk to a company I’ll write my email on their card or you know, just tear off a piece of paper off my notepad and give it to them. But um, yeah, it’s nice to not have that. And then I can really just get my information that companies I really think will be a fit for the coverage.

Jay Clouse 32:55
Putting aside-Oone more question on this point. Putting aside the Trailblazer program. Having a media badge at CES: superpower or bird?

Lindsay Bjerregaard 33:05
I mean, I will say, this is, this is kind of a dumb example. But for instance, this morning, I really, really, really wanted to get into the North Hall at the convention center right when the doors opened, to everybody to get out there to like, run and get footage of the Hyundai flying taxi, because it had been mobbed all week long and I could not get footage of this without like 15 people walking in front of my camera. And so you know, I was standing right by the door, clearly looking antsy. And one of those security guards, I think, took pity on me and saw that I was media and was like, You know what, just go in. And so I don’t know if that had to do with the media badge or I just looked completely desperate, but I’m going to count that as a win for the media badge.

Hayden Field 33:43
100% agreed. I mean, I think it’s a superpower, but it also can be a burden in some situations, but it’s more a superpower. Like,

Jay Clouse 33:52
You could just close your jacket.

Hayden Field 33:53
Yeah, I mean, I turned it around sometimes, I really do, like, what I’m doing hold my notepad over it and people are always trying to look and sometimes I’ll just hide it. But yeah, I mean like today I needed to taste the Impossible Foods new pork offering, and there is a line literally around the entire booth, like wrapping around. And um, me and Axios reporter went around the back, and we we’re like, Listen, we we’re on deadline, look, we just got a taste this really quick and have just one bite, and they just handed us one. We tasted it, great, we could go off and write our stuff. So yeah, I think it’s nice to kind of have that go-anywhere pass. And it’s also nice to feel important as a journalist. Like, you know, in this day and age, sometimes you kind of feel like, you know, you’re not making a lot, you’re sprazzled a lot of times, so it’s nice to feel like you’re an important person every once in a while.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 34:42
Agreed, for sure. Yeah.

Jay Clouse 34:44
You got into, like, a Twitter party. And you met Paris Hilton. And you saw Ludacris. Like, Eric and I and I don’t know about you, Lindsay, were you there for those things?

Hayden Field 34:54
No, because apparently Aviation Week is not glamorous enough to get invited to Ludacris parties. So if any, any of these companies are listening, I would like to come to your party. I’ll still tweet about it, even though it’s not aviation, because I want to see Ludacris.

Jay Clouse 35:05
Was that, did we miss the invite? Or like, what are we missing here?

Hayden Field 35:09
It’s honestly all about who you know. I was not invited to that Twitter party, I got in from a friend bringing the other plus one and name dropping a couple of people that I did not know. I’m still not verified on Twitter. So that tells you how much pull I have there. But yeah, I mean, I think it’s just a totally random sold email list, like spot of, like, my first year at CES, I literally didn’t get into anything. Even when I asked, they wouldn’t let me in last. And then this year, I got an email from Spotify, so I went to the ludicrous thing, that was exciting. And Paris Hilton was weirdly there. I think it’s just about the circulation of the gold mine that is journalists’ email addresses, and not much more than that. Yeah, the CES after dark lLife is pretty funny honestly, and I tried to make it to three things in one night last night, and I definitely just crashed at midnight and ame home and turn on my fireplace channel and went to bed. So, yeah, I definitely have been waking up at like 7:30 that’s the other hard thing about CES. If you stay out late, you’re also not gonna be able to wake up early. So you gotta really temper that and think about that before you make plans.

Jay Clouse 36:17
Good thing Vegas doesn’t incentivize you to stay up late.

Eric Hornung 36:20
Playing blackjack and losing all your money.

Jay Clouse 36:22
Losing blackjack. Eric, how many emails do you get as media?

Eric Hornung 36:26
Less than 300 a day.

Jay Clouse 36:30
It’s a lot. It’s a lot.

Hayden Field 36:31
I’ve been marking them a lot of them as read.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 36:34
What I also like, I like the companies that will send you an email as though you had already been in the conversation with them. They’re like, I’m just following up on the conversation we were having, I’m like I never responded to you, or they’ll send you the outlook meeting invite before even talking to you.

Hayden Field 36:47
The calendar invite’s. They’re so aggressive. That’s not how this works, dude.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 36:51
I saw an invite today on my calendar, and I was like, I don’t remember setting this up, and it was just sent cold. So I was like, delete.

Eric Hornung 36:58
If you guys were going to give advice to…I think we had 1,000 emails as of Monday that had come in just for CES specifically, I found they were all generic press press releases, but what catches your eye as you go through those press releases to say, this actually is something interesting.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 37:18
I mean, for me, it’s a little bit different, because I’m covering a very small niche. You know, I’m only covering aviation related stuff. And so if I’m getting emails about like, Internet of Things, diapers, or whatever, you know, it’s like, that’s not relevant to me. And I wish that some of these companies would at least somewhat filter who they’re sending this to, because a lot of times, I’m just going through and delete, delete, delete, delete, and it’s hard to sift through the noise to find things that are actually relevant. And you know, if companies actually look at the publication that you’re working for, and they have something that’s relevant for what you’re about to write about, and they send you like a somewhat personalized press release or a pitch or something like that, I’m way, way, way more likely to want to go swing by their booth and check it out write about it.

Jay Clouse 38:00
I’m surprised, you know, this is our second year, too. So everybody here is on our second year of CES in a row. Eric and I haven’t done an especially great job of planning leading up to the event other than, like, a couple days before. And I’m still impressed the responsiveness and actually, like, people showed up to our broadcast hours to record on time, sometimes ahead of time. And I don’t know that we’ve ever had anybody cancel, which is just so surprising to me for how big the show is itself. So, again, if you’re a journalist, like, you can set appointments, you can be choosy, it sounds, you can be choosy, you can set appointments, they’ll come to you. It’s a lot of power in the yellow stripe on your badge.

Eric Hornung 38:39
What about you, what sticks out to you when someone sends you a press release? If you’re going to be like, hey, PR friends, do this, don’t do this.

Hayden Field 38:47
Definitely, you know, the pretty obvious things are, make it a little personalized, don’t put insert name here, or insert compliment about their coverage here in brackets.

Jay Clouse 38:59
Dear Sir, dear Madam.

Eric Hornung 39:01
No it was Dear Sir, Dear Lady. It was like they forgot to choose which one.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 39:06
I’m pretty sure I that.

Hayden Field 39:07
I loved your article about “butter them up here.” But yeah, I definitely think, you know, not doing that weird small font that looks like it’s–and that’s like one third the size of a normal email that looks like it’s just a boilerplate press release. But yeah, I think it’s about making that subject kind of like a headline that they would write. So you don’t need to put the person’s name in the subject line of the email, and you don’t need to–I would say make it something that you would want to click on. You know? So many emails I get are things that I’m pretty sure that person that sent it wouldn’t want to click on it if they were receiving it. So yeah, like a headline that they would write. You know, it’s pretty easy to all poke into the kind of similar in the headlines they write. But like, you know, Business Insider writes really long ones, Entrepreneur’s are shorter, maybe two sentences. So yeah, just like look at that. Check out the type of headline they would write and think of a good one. That’s why some of the best PR people I’ve ever interacted with are former journalists. And then I would say bullet pointing the email, you know, bolding certain things, even kind of formatting it in the format of a story can help, you know, saying like, the blank, the blank, the blank about like three, you know, characters in the story or you know why that company is different from its competitors is really, that’s the thing that’s really going to drive it home. Like, I talked to a headphone company today. I was like, Well, how does this make you different from your competitors? That’s another overrepresented thing here this year, headphones. But um, they literally couldn’t tell me what set them really apart from brands that were similar to them. So yeah.

Eric Hornung 39:15
Do you guys think CES is going to be more or less important in five years?

Hayden Field 40:45
I think there are going to be a lot more things like CES. I feel like CES is not going to be the only big name tech conference in five years. And so maybe it’ll be the original,so it’ll be a little more important. But I also think there will be similar kind of events, maybe in different parts of the country. So you don’t have to come all the way to Las Vegas. Maybe there’s a new york one, maybe there’s a Midwest, one a South one. So yeah, I think both more important and less important in that it’s the original, but maybe it’s not the only one anymore.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 41:18
Yeah I mean, you know, I know it keeps growing every year, and it keeps getting bigger and bigger. And I think at some point, it’s going to get so big that, you know, people aren’t–at least journalists–aren’t going to be able to cover it successfully. So, you know, I wouldn’t want them to get to the point where it’s just, like, overblown and people don’t want to come to it anymore. So I don’t know, I think like you said, you know, maybe there’s opportunity for other events to get into that same space or to change up the format a little bit. You know, whether it’s regional versions of this, more segmented versions of this where they’re only covering one or two of these different technology topics rather than everything.

Jay Clouse 41:54
I have a future of CES thought here. Imagine, kind of to the point I was making about, like these virtual booths. Imagine kind of, like, perpetual virtual reality, niche conferences like this, where you’re not just seeing the products but like, not only can you interact with somebody live who can show you the product, but other people who want to go see that, like you have still this hallway effect, even if it is avatars, you know, you don’t have to fly seven hours or four hours with a three hour layover to get here. You don’t have to butt into everybody, like your avatars can walk through each other if they have to in this made up physical space. I think that’d be cool, and I think you could make an argument to have several of those that are niche or not niche. If this is virtual reality, like they can all be niche and essentially in the same place. You know, if you swipe to the next conference, you just have like this summit one week where it’s all these niche conferences, and you go to all of them, you go to some of them, and you can kind of, you know, still meet people who care about that specific thing.

Eric Hornung 42:53
Do you think that’s five years out?

Jay Clouse 42:54
I think it could be. Why not? I think that could be two years out, one year out. Because even though you wouldn’t get like the full effect of experiencing the product tactically, you can do 3D models of these things. We’ve had Siq on the show, Siq was at one of the showcases Hayden I saw earlier this week. You can do a 3D model of something, walk through it, Facebook has the avatars in their oculus like, I did you do that soon. The question is, what are the downstream implications of events like CES on cities like Las Vegas that thrive on big showcase events like that. Does that rule out any certain type of demographic who’s coming to the show because it’s inaccessible to get to VR? Does it increase it because it makes it more accessible to get into VR? I don’t know. And there’s probably going to be some entrenched interests who either really want that or really don’t want that.

Hayden Field 43:42
That’s so true.

Jay Clouse 43:43
Future of CES, Eric. What are you thinking?

Eric Hornung 43:45
I don’t think it’s going to be virtual reality in the next five to 20 years. It could be in the future. But I think that for CES to be successful right now, what I’ve noticed from just like, everyone I’ve talked to about CES when they come here, and you send them off with a little, have fun, and then it’s always like, I never do. And I feel like that kind of like, the sentiment around CES seems to be growing in a negative way. And I think it is aligned to the bigness of CES. So I you were like dead on with the segmentation of CES and doing it maybe over the course of a month, and four separate weeks, kind of how South By has their three weeks. I think that’s a much more sustainable model to get people really excited because the entire automotive industry and heavy machinery, and they would love to come for their week, and just be like the only show in town. And then one week maybe…Because I think it all goes back to the idea that when this was founded, consumer electronics was so small. It wasn’t like a big thing. It didn’t span everywhere. So you could have like a small tight knit group that all really cared about consumer electronics. And now I don’t think you can because consumer electronics is literally everywhere.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 44:58
Everything. Yeah, it’s just like, I was talking to someone recently about how being a tech journalist is soon not going to be a thing. Tech is everything. So if you’re a journalist you write about tech. Same with this, like, consumer electronics, everything is here from Delta to Impossible Foods to, I mean, incredibly niche and also incredibly huge companies that you just really wouldn’t connect with tech are here because they want to show that they’re on the new frontier, that they’re implementing tech. So I feel like, yeah, it’s gonna get so big that just like any bubble, it’s eventually going to burst.

Jay Clouse 45:34
All right, any other. Actually, I just want to go around and hear some highlights. CES 2020 in the books. What do you think of as highlights for this show?

Eric Hornung 45:43
Besides meeting Eric and Jay.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 45:45
Of course. Well, it’s funny. You mentioned avatars just a minute ago, and I don’t know if you guys got over to the North Hall where they have all of like the automotive tech. But Mercedes Benz debuted a concept car based on avatar, like the movie ‘Avatar’ that apparently has no steering wheel and can Drive sideways. So I thought that that was very strange and I don’t know why that exists but I thought that it was interesting.

Eric Hornung 46:07
It can drive sideways as in the wheels can turn 360 degrees, or it can drive sideways…? I don’t understand that.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 46:12
I didn’t look closely enough to see that. Well, and they didn’t have it like demonstrating as far as I saw there, so.

Jay Clouse 46:19
Interesting. So we got driving sideways cars, we’ve got parallel reality, is something we both enjoyed. Eric What about you, we’re just gonna go counterclockwise.

Eric Hornung 46:27
Watching Jay cuddle with a robot was pretty, a pretty big highlight for me. In the Japan…

Jay Clouse 46:33
Two years in a row.

Eric Hornung 46:33
Yeah, two years in a row. Jay cuddling with robots. It’s a theme.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 46:37
Wait, was it the robot that we were talking about earlier?

Hayden Field 46:39

Jay Clouse 46:41
No, it was not Erica. It was this little, it was called Lovot.

Eric Hornung 46:44
It was named Wasabi.

Jay Clouse 46:46
Little rolly…

Lindsay Bjerregaard 46:47
I saw, I saw a cute little service dog making friends with that same robot.

Jay Clouse 46:51
It had so much emotional depth and it’s digital eyes that it like, moved me.

Hayden Field 46:57
You know, I did a poll on entrepreneurs social media and they have like 3.3 million followers. And I said “Cute or Creepy?” about Lovot.

Jay Clouse 47:04

Hayden Field 47:04
And let’s see, I think that the consensus was mostly cute. But I think it was about around 60% cute, 40% creepy. So, yeah, there you go.

Eric Hornung 47:17
Jay was looking deeply into its eyes.

Hayden Field 47:19
Those are pretty emotive eyes, I have to say.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 47:21
I mean, listen, CES is difficult. So I can see why you would need like a loving embrace every once in a while.

Hayden Field 47:27
Yeah, a highlight for me was definitely just seeing how many small companies are doing really big things that could have applications through the whole country in the world. Like there is a wildfire detection tech company in Eureka Park today. And, you know, obviously with the things happening in Australia right now, that was really, that really resonated with me. And companies taking on really just big ideas, like Sudden Infant Death Syndrome with new tech that could save lives. That was a real highlight for me. And then other than that, you know there are a lot of cool little like activations and experiences to take part in, like Lamborghini massage chairs and a cool roller coaster type chairs you could sit in and feel the centrifugal force stuff like that. So there’s, there’s a lot of cool stuff that you could do and really experience the type of tech the company was trying to, to launch. So yeah, I mean, that was cool. And then just meeting other cool journalists and, and people that I’m going to stay in touch with was really awesome. That’s something that was new to me this year. So that was awesome.

Jay Clouse 48:34
Well, you beat me to the punch on the massage chairs. Massage chairs are 10 out of 10 one of my favorite things about CES. There’s a lot of massage chairs, too. Was the Lamborghini one here this year?

Hayden Field 48:44
Yes, I did see some others, but Lamborghini really stole the show with that.

Jay Clouse 48:49
I really liked how many subject areas we got to span, Eric, from eSports, both on the infrastructure side and a team side. We talked to an author who did storytelling. We talked to a guy about 5g connectivity, which was a blind spot for me. We talked to a woman who invests in both like social impact businesses or impact businesses, but that are highly scalable growth companies. A lot of really, really smart people here that it would just be hard to meet, especially not and the amount of time that we spent here. So yeah, a lot of highlights for me, too. Ooh, one more, one more products that we saw late today, something called Last Game Board., it’s…

Eric Hornung 49:26
Wow, the plug. You even threw the website out there.

Jay Clouse 49:28
And I am not incentivized to do this at all. But it is like a touchscreen, it’s totally square. And it can house and support potentially infinite games that people develop or put on the platform. So instead of having a game in a box with a board and pieces, you have one game board that’s a touchscreen that digitally loads up any game you want to play. They can like snap together and play across multiple games. It’s awesome. We can play Settlers of Catan on that, you play Checkers on that.

Eric Hornung 49:44
You play Secret Hitler on that.

Jay Clouse 49:59
Theoretically you could play Twister on that.

Eric Hornung 50:00
That’s true.

Hayden Field 50:01
It’s also like that one company, Doodle Matic and you get to design your own video games and then just play them on a touchscreen, so…

Jay Clouse 50:08
Crazy. Yeah.

Eric Hornung 50:09
Is it like a no-code experience? Oh man, I’m, I love the no…We’re going down a whole other rabbit hole here. Love the no-code movement. We watched a pitch today. And the winner was doing no-code algorithmic trading. And I thought that was awesome. But before we go down there…

Jay Clouse 50:25
Wait a second, that was no-code? That was you were making your own algorithms? That wasn’t recommending smart algorithms for you? Oh.

Eric Hornung 50:30
You could pair anything you want, but talk about it as if you’re a regular human and not a coder, and then create algorithms that it trades on your brokerage account for you.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 50:40

Eric Hornung 50:40
Anyway, gonna get lost on that one. Hopefully we have them on the podcast. Let’s wrap this up. Lindsey, if people want to find out more about you or Aviation Week, where should they go?

Lindsay Bjerregaard 50:49
Sure. So is our website. You know, we cover all different aspects of aviation. And then you can follow me on Twitter. I’m AVWeekLindsay, L-I-N-D-S-A-Y, the correct way to spell Lindsay.

Eric Hornung 51:01
The most eloquent person on Twitter. I was amazed. We’re sitting right next to her at the Delta thing. She’s taking all these pictures, writing all this stuff. And I’m looking on Twitter and she’s…I’m putting out like gibberish and she’s putting up…

Jay Clouse 51:13
“The Delta thing.”

Lindsay Bjerregaard 51:15
I felt like as the person that covers aviation and an airline is actually doing the opening keynote, I just felt like I really had to be on point for that one.

Jay Clouse 51:23
Nailed it. And Hayden, if people want to follow you or the work that you do, where should they go?

Hayden Field 51:27
I’m @HaydenField on all my social media, and is my site. And then, of course, and you just search author Hayden Field. My stuff is there to say yeah. Field not Fields because people inexplicably always ad an ‘s’ to the last name.

Jay Clouse 51:47
Awesome. Great to meet you guys. Thanks for being on the show.

Lindsay Bjerregaard 51:49

Hayden Field 51:49

Jay Clouse 51:52
Hey, listener. Have you ever wanted to get a message in front of the Upside audience but weren’t sure how to sponsor the show or weren’t able to do a long term sponsorship? Well, now you can just go to and let our audience know anything that’s going on in your world, whether it’s an event, an application, a special coupon, or deal, or just letting them know who you are, what your company does. All you have to do is go to, and you can place an ad on this show. That’s

Interview begins: 4:02

This episode begins our coverage of CES 2020.

Lindsay Bjerregaard is a Digital Editorial Producer with Aviation Week and Hayden Field is an Associate Editor at Entrepreneur.

Lindsay and Hayden, along with us, were brought to CES through its Media Trailblazer Program, which aims to recruit journalists to the tech-inspired convention. It was the second year of CES for each of us, so together we discuss our thoughts on the different products showcased, the highlights of the show, and the future of the conference.

We discuss:

  • AD: Finding experienced employees for your new business with Integrity Power Search (2:35)
  • Prior expectations of CES and the articles they sought to write (4:28)
  • Flying automobiles at CES and in the future (5:46)
  • Overrepresented genres at CES: sleep tech, single use robots, flashy products, VR/AR (9:45)
  • What makes an attention-grabbing booth (15:56)
  • Underwhelming aspects of CES (19:32)
  • Delta’s parallel reality display (23:13)
  • Big enterprises investing in startups (25:14)
  • Media Trailblazers Program (27:32)
  • CES advice for media journalists (30:01)
  • Media badge privileges (32:55)
  • Journalists’ advice for press releases (36:58)
  • CES in 5 years (39:15)
  • CES 2020’s highlights (45:34)

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